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cozz



Member Since: 15 May 2013
Location: nottingham
Posts: 521

Yep, my thoughts exactly

bought a new rubicon JL 2.0 petrol 280 bhp

lift kit, 35" tyres, bumper and side bars

locking diffs, sway bar disconnect from cab

5000 miles in and no probs

still got my series 3 landy though

I have had more people commenting and asking about it than I ever did when i had my defenders, and also they don't seem to suffer from theft as much. I also like the fact you don't see as many

an icon that has evolved, without loosing sight of what it once was


Click image to enlarge
Post #798205 14th Oct 2019 8:32pm
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Scotm



Member Since: 28 Feb 2014
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 635

Scotland 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Orkney Grey
Fat Cog wrote:


Oh yes & I had to laugh when the reviewer states that Jeep listened to existing owners about what they wanted from the new Wrangler...did JLR talk to ANY Defender owners?!?!



Whilst clearly not - LR did make a lot effort in the final defender factory tours to get folk to write down and pin to the wall what they wanted from the new defender. Must have gone to the landfill with the factory!
Post #798206 14th Oct 2019 8:37pm
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GREENI



Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10355

United Kingdom 
Nice Cozz.... wayalife Thumbs Up
Post #798208 14th Oct 2019 8:46pm
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dailysleaze



Member Since: 23 May 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 237

United Kingdom 
You can see how Jeep have gone about the "pedestrian safety" rules by sticky a big rubbery bumper on the front (similar to the Land Cruiser 70 series), whereas those same rules were supposed to have resulted in the death of the Defender.
Post #798210 14th Oct 2019 8:55pm
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Setok



Member Since: 16 Jan 2009
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 415

Finland 
Occasionally I go back and look at the new Defender and say to myself ‘OK, maybe it’s not so bad’. Then I see what Jeep has done with the Wrangler or I see a new Jimny drive by and I end up sobbing. What are Wrangler sales figures like, by the way? Jimny sales are apparently through the roof.

Land Rover had something most car manufacturers crave: an iconic vehicle with real heritage. A halo product that shines light on the rest of the range.
Post #798215 14th Oct 2019 9:23pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4430

Ireland 
I fail to see that with today's technology and materials that the basic shape of the Defender could not have been kept. All Gerri had to do was to tell all of the university graduates working for him "This is the shape I want, make it happen". Suzuki have done it with the Jimny and Jeep with the Wrangler. Where there's a will there's a way. A bit of common sense and brainpower could have overcome any issues needed for certification.There are ways today of adding structural strength with light weight composites so that the roll over integrity could be ensured. It would have cost less than going the route they did. What they had was instantly recognisable.
The basic idea behind Defender was good but sometimes the execution of the idea fell short of the ideal. With less penny pinching as far as parts were concerned the reliability issue could have been addressed.
Personally, I think they will see their mistake as sales of the new vehicle plummet and in the future they will introduce the Defender Classic using the methods I mentioned above. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #798219 14th Oct 2019 9:44pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
cozz wrote:


bought a new rubicon JL 2.0 petrol 280 bhp

lift kit, 35" tyres, bumper and side bars

locking diffs, sway bar disconnect from cab

5000 miles in and no probs


Click image to enlarge


That does look nice ~ is the full spec you have listed available from Jeep direct or is some of it aftermarket?

There's something about the doors on the Wrangler that just look so right. Thumbs Up
Post #798227 15th Oct 2019 5:48am
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1277

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
I went down the Jeep route in February after many years of Defender ownership.
I knew the new Defender would be too expensive for me and too much of a departure from the traditional.

As more detail on the new Defender has become available, I haven't regretted my decision at all. And this despite a couple of warranty issues and terrible service from the service department at the Leeds dealership.

The Jeep is everything the new Defender could/should have been.
An iconic design, sympathetically updated to bring it to an acceptable level for today's motoring.

The stock specification on the Rubicon is impressive and as with old Defender, the range of bolt on aftermarket parts is massive.

I may never convert mine from hard top to soft top, but it's good to know that I can simply by unbolting the roof, unclipping the rear window harness wiring connector and bolting on a soft top frame. Likewise, the doors can be removed in a matter of minutes.

The Rubicon comes as standard with 17" KM2's, proper front and rear diff locks and a front anti roll bar disconnect system.
It may not have air suspension or all the terrain response gizmo's, but I bet it would hold its own in stock trim against any stock new Defender on the muddy field tracks where I live.

It is built on a proper old school chassis with solid axles and a proper transfer box, but has plenty of creature comforts like a decent sound system, dual zone climate control, leather heated seats, excellent LED headlights.

I could go on, but this is a Defender forum.

My point is that Jeep have managed to successfully pull off another step in the Jeep's evolution, whereas in my opinion, JLR have failed spectacularly.

What they have produced is a great D4 replacement, albeit with a frightening amount of complexity and lack of user serviceability.

As Blackwolf has commented, that body will be a nightmare to fix once the rot sets in.
Probably not a problem for most owners as other than road salt, the vehicles won't get exposed to hostile environments and will be traded in long before problems set in.
But if used daily in the mud and mire, then I expect there will be issues despite any amount of factory powder coating and cavity treatment.
Post #798231 15th Oct 2019 6:38am
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familymad



Member Since: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Bucks
Posts: 3459

 2016 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black

Click image to enlarge
[/quote]

Hands up if you have just been on the Jeep configurator Whistle 1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI
1995 90 300TDI
Post #798232 15th Oct 2019 6:43am
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NoDo$h



Member Since: 18 Aug 2007
Location: Buried in deer guts in Dorset
Posts: 972

England 
Make sure you check the towing capacity Whistle

2200kg braked for the diesel, 2000kg braked for the petrol

https://www.jeep.co.uk/4x4/towing-csv

And the two-door can only tow 1500kg 

54 Freelander modded for mud
2008 D3 SE
2010 90 XS SW
1978 88 Series 3 undergoing surgery with a new owner
2007 90 County Truck Cab - gone
2006 D3 SE - gone
2004 Freelander Sport - gay
1999 Disco V8 ES rotted to bits
Post #798250 15th Oct 2019 9:08am
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Setok



Member Since: 16 Jan 2009
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 415

Finland 
spudfan wrote:

Personally, I think they will see their mistake as sales of the new vehicle plummet and in the future they will introduce the Defender Classic using the methods I mentioned above.


My guess is it will sell reasonably well, but not increase overall sales for Land Rover. In other words it will not expand their market but merely eat up other products (like the Disco) that people may have considered.

Additionally, the lack of an honest, serious 4x4 may reduce the value and integrity of the brand so overall sales may even decrease.
Post #798253 15th Oct 2019 9:39am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3748

 
It is JLR’s new mission statement to go for high margins instead of volume, so budget versions will not be on the menu, I can see it appealing to those who tow big boats and caravans as a slightly cheaper alternative to a new RRS or D5. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #798257 15th Oct 2019 10:07am
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chalky



Member Since: 09 May 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 483

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green
All this talk of sales figures not being affected as people buy predominantly within the brand has all been heard before, when VW re introduced the Beetle there were fears that those who who bought Golfs, Polo and Passat would just buy a Beetle when in actual fact it attracted more focus on the brand and sales across the brand increased, think back 20 years and the Beetle was hot property..... they were everywhere,

MINI, another icon re imagined ! Every second car on the road seems to have a Mini badge on it, they all look exactly the same to my untrained eye but by all accounts they are each and every one vastly different ?

DEFENDER owners will scrutinise the product On offer and measure it against ban icon but the vast majority of buyers will purchase on looks alone, the reality is DEFENDER is a brand like Barbour or Hunter wellies, all 3 go together but what actually sells is People just want to look and feel good about the car they drive, take Evoque for example... why on earth would anyone buy one ? But plenty have based purely on looks alone.

Based on the amount of positive feedback I heard at the factory yesterday They aren’t going to be able to build these fast enough ? DEFENDER XS CSW 08 TONGA GREEN
Post #798260 15th Oct 2019 10:43am
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Setok



Member Since: 16 Jan 2009
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 415

Finland 
The problem with the MINI and Beetle argument is that both cars have strong visual ties to the earlier products. In VW's case the Beetle brought in interested parties who would not otherwise come to VW. I'm not convinced the Defender is really doing either of those jobs — the new Defender just doesn't have that same no nonsense iconic shape it became famous for, whereas the Wrangler, Jimny and G Wagon do.

It's funny that the Lego version is much closer!

Edited to add that Barbour absolutely plays the heritage link with their products, having kept the iconic old waxed cotton jobs featuring quite prominently, in addition to newer technologies, and they do still refer to the country market that made them a success in the first place. Land Rover is doing neither. Just a pity Barbour seems to have moved all manufacture outside the UK, which means my current Northumbria might be my last Barbour.
Post #798271 15th Oct 2019 12:00pm
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chalky



Member Since: 09 May 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 483

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green
I kind of understand what your saying, but the beetle had a major hurdle to over come in that the engine was in the front, most people I know bought one because they had the previous incarnation which never worked, a trip to Malvern VW festival saw thousands in the car park, people just took it for what it was, a modern water cooled Re incarnation of a once forgotten classic, same with the MINI or Maxi as we like to call them, The ones I see bare little resemblance to the original, for a start they are over twice as big, we had a countryman that was the same size as an evoque and apart from the clock in the middle of the dash and the name...... which was in capital letters not lower case as they didn’t get the rights to that with the BMW merger all that time ago, the new MINI was rebuffed by the purists at the time but the marketing people knew that EVERYONE had been touched by the little car at some point in their lives, they might not have had one but they knew some one who had.....

Which I thought was cobblers...... then remembered my dad had a white 1275 GT with a tan leather roof covering in the 80’s

Rolling with laughter

As for Barbour, I bought 3 solway zippers 20 years ago, I wore one out and sold it used for £75, half way thro my second,

The DEFENDER heritage I can’t help but think crudely that the powers that be have some how wickedly done this on purpose, knowing full well that it’s marmite architecture would divide opinion. DEFENDER XS CSW 08 TONGA GREEN
Post #798287 15th Oct 2019 1:00pm
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