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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 4245

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey

Naks wrote:
Nailed it!

https://www.evo.co.uk/opinion/22767/it-s-t...eds-to?amp

Quote:
'It’s time everyone woke up to the fact that the new Land Rover Defender needs to change'
The market for this car isn't a mythical throng of utility workers and cattle herders, it's suburban families who dream of G-wagens
by: Richard Porter
11 Jun 2019

Do you remember the Bank Holiday Bond-a-thon episode of I’m Alan Partridge where the lead character listens with horror as his guests misremember 007’s adventures and eventually cries in anguish, ‘STOP GETTING BOND WRONG’? Well that’s how I feel about the new Land Rover Defender.

You probably know there’s a new Defender coming. It’s been a while because the original was extinguished by regulations while Land Rover was too busy engineering other models to make a new one, and had nowhere to build it anyway. That’s all taken care of now, and later this year we’ll see a new model. A few months ago you might have spotted a leaked picture of what’s claimed to be the dashboard. You might have also noticed a hubbub of reaction to it, much of it so misguided that I wanted to walk outside to my old-style Defender and slam my head in the tailgate.

When the new car finally appears I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed, because right now they’re doing the car equivalent of getting Bond wrong. ‘I hope the new Defender is true to its roots,’ they say, but what does that mean? Central steering wheel? Only one colour? Flappy, half-height doors?

I think what they’re really suggesting is that it should be a supreme off-roader like the old one, but that’s not entirely accurate because in its twilight years the original Defender wasn’t even the best off-roader in the Land Rover range. It was good, but it hadn’t got any chops that couldn’t be matched by an air-sprung, traction-controlled Range Rover.

In fact, Solihull people would quietly admit, the surprise off-road star in recent years was the old Range Rover Sport which, having a short wheelbase and modern chassis systems, just needed chunky tyres to show a Defender 90 the way home. In the current range, even the Discovery with its big overhangs and arse like Anne Robinson’s smile is remarkably competent off-road, so you can bet the new Defender will be just fine if you need to drive it up a landslide.

But I don’t think this is all that’s meant by ‘true to its roots’. I think it also suggests a kind of simplicity, which is why people who like getting Bond wrong always seem to use the phrase ‘hose-out interior’. What madness is this? I wouldn’t hose out the interior of my old Defender, because it’s got cloth seats and a stereo. When was the last time anyone hosed out the interior of a car? Have you ever sat in a car that’s been in water? It stinks and then fogs up like a Censored so you crash into the river from which you just escaped. I’m sure the new Defender will be quite rugged and full of artful touches that make it seem outdoorsy, but it’s not going to be bog-basic because that’s not the market it’ll aim at. And this is where people really are getting Bond wrong.

‘Oh no,’ they wail, ‘it’s going to be a “lifestyle” off-roader.’ Well, yes. ‘But,’ they cry, ‘it should be for proper Defender drivers like the army and farmers.’ Now come on people, pay a-frigging-ttention here. The army only bought Defenders because they had to, and now they’ve decided they don’t like bullets coming into the cabin they’re relieved to be ordering more bespoke machines, just as Land Rover is relieved not to be dealing with the arse ache of government tendering processes. As for farmers, they switched to Mitsubishis and Toyotas years ago because they’re more dependable and more affordable.

You can have a Hilux for 20 grand, ex-VAT. The new Defender will not cost that. ‘Well it should,’ splutter Bond-wrongers. Yes, yes, yes, but it can’t. The cheapest model in the current Land Rover range is the Discovery Sport, which starts at a little over £30,000. The new Defender, which will be bigger and built on a fancy platform meant for Range Rovers, can’t undercut that. And why should it when the market for this new car is not a mythical throng of utility workers and cattle herders but, whether you like it or not, suburban families who currently have Discovery 4s and dream of Mercedes G-wagens?

After all, they’re the sort of people who have 45 grand to spend or, more likely, can run to the chunky monthlies on a PCP scheme. This is how Land Rover will survive in these tricky times, by making an expensive car that sells to well-heeled people for more than it costs to make, not by delivering on some deluded 1950s yeomanry fantasy for PC-bound pundits who aren’t going to buy one anyway.

I know nothing about the actual spec of the new Defender, but I’m going to say with confidence, it won’t be cheap, it won’t be basic and it won’t like it at all if you turn a hose on the interior. If you’re holding out for any of that you’re ignoring what will make it sell and what will keep the company making it alive.

So please, come on, for the love of God, stop getting Bond wrong.


The problem is Naks, that whilst there are many on here (and around in general) who are the 1950s yeomanry types, there are many many more who aren’t. They appreciate the direction LR needed to go, they understand the tech. But, even so, they, (or I, as I’m one), ask why-oh-why couldn’t it at least preserved the ‘look’ of the old one which is probably the most important, (but by no means only), factor in its character and had at least one stripped down, more affordable model for the enthusiast? Even if that enthusiast might be slightly more well-off than other enthusiasts? These two requirements from the Defender community is something they could have perfectly easily achieved. Look at the new VW Camper, the 911, the Wrangler, the G Wagen, the Unimog, the Mini etc. All iconic cars that have been brilliantly rendered into 21c vehicles. There is NOTHING about the new Discfender that achieves that same lineage. That’s why I’m moaning and I’m sure why others are (principally) moaning too.


Click image to enlarge


Versus


Click image to enlarge
 Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

Post #792335 12th Sep 2019 7:34am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 10108

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

diesel_jim wrote:
That side ladder looks, um... "sturdy".... especially if you were carrying say a jerrycan at the same time.


It also seems to start at groin level for a normal height person, which would be tricky with a jerrycan.

Post #792347 12th Sep 2019 8:16am
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Swedishbloke



Member Since: 14 Mar 2014
Location: North of the Arctic circle
Posts: 9

Sweden 

While I am not a huge fan of the looks of the new Defender I most admit that it looks much, much better with the white steel rims.

Post #792399 12th Sep 2019 10:04am
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RobKeay



Member Since: 19 Jul 2009
Location: Stafford
Posts: 1396

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

I was lucky enough to buy a tomb raider 110 back in 2002. I paid £26k ish for it from memory. When you put that in one of these online inflation calculators, it works out at £40k ish. That did have a roll cage and lights. But no other stuff really didn’t even have electric windows.

So price has just risen away from us. I only paid £21k for a year old D3 Xs in 2008. Try buying a year old disco for that now.

I’ll be waiting for the commercial and will use it as part of my tree surgery firm. 200tdi Rebuild just needs dashboard, windowscreen and kenlowe fitting hopefully ready for peterborough

Post #792429 12th Sep 2019 11:16am
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What puddle?



Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 738

United Kingdom 

Can someone cleverer than me please explain: Suzuki can make a great small 4x4 for less than £20,000. They are so popular that Suzuki can't keep up with demand (waiting list of a year in the UK!!!). It's been a massive success. So my question: why didn't LR make the new Defender simply a larger version for £30,000? As I'm saying on the other thread, why did they go up-market? Someone please explain. Is there more profit in selling £40,000++ cars (but fewer of them) than there is in selling LOTS of £30,000 cars? Because I'm guessing that LR could sell hundreds of thousands of a £30k 4x4. UK population is growing at 1,200 a day (8,400 people a week). Think about it...because no one is.

Post #792436 12th Sep 2019 11:27am
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doncarloz



Member Since: 29 Oct 2017
Location: Styria
Posts: 28

Austria 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Stornoway Grey

@what puddle: you already answered your question yourself. Esp premium car makers don't make money on cheaper cars. If i remember correctly BMW for instance burns money on any car sold under 40k€. Thats why they want you to buy that fugly x6.

Post #792444 12th Sep 2019 11:56am
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MartinK



Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2369

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

Not sure if this has been posted here, just seen on another forum:

Click image to enlarge
 Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
Volvo XC70 (Work)
BMW K1200RS

Post #792452 12th Sep 2019 12:21pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 5966

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Is that an official slide? First image of 130 or just someone's impression?

Post #792467 12th Sep 2019 1:04pm
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RDR



Member Since: 27 Apr 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 68

United Kingdom 

the leaked 130 silhouette on those presentation slides a few months ago didn't have the rear mounted spare. I would think they will sling it underneath on the 130 as there should be space and it stops the length getting out of hand. D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
D4 MY12 HSE - Gone
D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold
D5 Si6 HSE Luxury - 22' Dynamic on order < now cancelled last hope on the New Defender

Post #792519 12th Sep 2019 4:57pm
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 271

So am I the forum traitor? Just home from the dealership and I didn’t demand my deposit back but left them with a couple of specs to work on. Looks like it’s just the car for me to be able to reduce from my Mini Countryman PHEV and 1996 TDi300 County Hard Top converted to a station wagon to something that will handle my day to day needs and be able to get me off-road in comfort. Epsom Green Tdi300 County Hard Top that has been converted into a Station Wagon
Recently departed - RRS2 HSE Dynamic in Corris Grey brilliant car but a pity about the crank problem JLR don’t acknowledge so at 3 years old it was replaced by my first non-LR car in 30 years......... a fantastic Mini Countryman PHEV, loving the economy of so far better than 148mpg as it runs 90% of the time on solar generated volts and amps

Post #792535 12th Sep 2019 5:12pm
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RDR



Member Since: 27 Apr 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 68

United Kingdom 

nice one, have an appointment this weekend at the dealers to discuss my order further. Sent them a couple of builds through, i note the finance APR is 5.9% I got 4% on the disco last month so negations will be interesting. Guess they will stand fast given its a new model! D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
D4 MY12 HSE - Gone
D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold
D5 Si6 HSE Luxury - 22' Dynamic on order < now cancelled last hope on the New Defender

Post #792537 12th Sep 2019 5:19pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 2546

Ireland 

Anyone checked if Britpart have started listing parts for the Complexifender yet? 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

Post #792539 12th Sep 2019 5:22pm
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Landish



Member Since: 19 Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 44

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 SW Belize Green

Tim in Scotland wrote:
So am I the forum traitor? Just home from the dealership and I didn’t demand my deposit back but left them with a couple of specs to work on. Looks like it’s just the car for me to be able to reduce from my Mini Countryman PHEV and 1996 TDi300 County Hard Top converted to a station wagon to something that will handle my day to day needs and be able to get me off-road in comfort.


Are you going for the 110, Tim? Which engine? 2005 Defender 90 TD5

Post #792552 12th Sep 2019 5:45pm
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 271

My preferred specs are:
Option A) 110 SE P300 Country Pack, Off-road Pack, Tow Pack, Cold Climate Pack, style 9006 alloys. I’m undecided about colour but either Indus or Pangea or Fuji White, same with the roof - green with white contrast but body colour if white or silver, I fancy the panoramic roof but it isn’t essential. Ebony interior with optional heated rear seats.

Option B) 90 SE P400E or P300, with all the same packs and options and delete option of the silly body coloured square panels over the rear windows (I think that feature looks great on the 110 though, just look silly on the 90)

I’m happy to wait for the announcement of the PHEV as having run a PHEV now for 15 months it suits my present drives to a T, and the LR PHEV has a bigger range than my Countryman’s. In the last 15 months with the Mini PHEV around 80% of my trips have been made in fully electric mode and where I live (16 miles out of town in the sticks) I have access to free use of public chargers and use the solar panels on my roof to charge the Mini in the daytime or I can set it to charge in the offpeak period at night, I don’t need a home charger. The reason for not opting for the P400E 110 is that I think the price will be higher than my price ceiling of £65000. I would go diesel if there were something better than the 2.0ltr Ingenium Diesel Engine which has been beset with DPF and oil dilution issues in Evoque and Discovery Sport and JLR don’t seem to be making any effort to cure those problems. Would be nice to think that a diesel motor with similar power and torque to my much missed SDv6 RRS HSE Dynamic might become available.

My 110 spec would look like this screen shot from the configurator

Click image to enlarge
 Epsom Green Tdi300 County Hard Top that has been converted into a Station Wagon
Recently departed - RRS2 HSE Dynamic in Corris Grey brilliant car but a pity about the crank problem JLR don’t acknowledge so at 3 years old it was replaced by my first non-LR car in 30 years......... a fantastic Mini Countryman PHEV, loving the economy of so far better than 148mpg as it runs 90% of the time on solar generated volts and amps

Post #792571 12th Sep 2019 6:29pm
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 1903

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

I had just had a try without going OTT and it came in a smidgen under £90k.

Bargain.

Post #792591 12th Sep 2019 7:27pm
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