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discomog



Member Since: 09 May 2015
Location: Notts/Lincs Border
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Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine
At least one UK manufacturer is heading in the right direction:-

Setting the standard JCB is set to showcase its hydrogen combustion technology, electric drivetrain and efficient diesel engines at CONEXPO-CON/AGG in Las Vegas. This will be the international debut of the hydrogen combustion engine in North America.
JCB Chairman Lord Bamford is leading the project to develop JCB’s hydrogen technology. He said: “The JCB engineering team has made enormous strides in a short space of time to develop a hydrogen internal combustion engine and it already powers a JCB prototype backhoe loader and a Loadall telescopic handler. As the first construction equipment company to develop a fully working combustion engine fuelled by hydrogen, I’m delighted we are now able to present this technology on the international stage.”

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Post #979315 23rd Jan 2023 8:24am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
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Encouraging that at least one engineering mind is thinking in the right direction.

See also https://www.defender2.net/forum/post914216.html from July 2021.
Post #979354 23rd Jan 2023 12:33pm
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Nick-St



Member Since: 23 Apr 2013
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Post #979374 23rd Jan 2023 2:15pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
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This is clearly becoming a big deal in heavy plant:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64248564 Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #979375 23rd Jan 2023 2:20pm
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Race.it



Member Since: 27 Aug 2019
Location: Algeciras
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Spain 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alaska White
LRA I was going to post that link. Hydrogen and diesel in an existing engine. Sounds promising Searching for my first Defender...and started just as Covid hit, so talk about timing.

5 months after starting the search I found it, and here is the details
Post #979453 23rd Jan 2023 7:53pm
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Procta



Member Since: 03 Dec 2016
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i am sure ford did a prototype 20 years ago with a hydrogen powered car, waste product was water.
I have a feeling that this will be the way to go and electric powered cars will do a U turn. Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

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Post #979667 25th Jan 2023 12:24am
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22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
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Electric powered cars are feasible, electric (battery) commercials are not, so great to see JCB leading the way on a working alternative. I understand there will still be infrastructure issues about the transport and storage of the fuel but I'm sure that will be overcome. 2011 110 USW
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Post #979672 25th Jan 2023 6:52am
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TexasRover



Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
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France 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White
After all the energy turmoil the last year or two it is hard to imagine a power grid that can charge all these vehicles and heat all these houses. In France they are (were) talking about rolling blackouts, which is common in states like California (summer) and Texas (winter). That is prior to any meaningful electrical car load. Where is all this electric energy going to come from?

Liquid fuels ARE much easier and efficient to distribute among the planet than gaseous fuels. They also provide more security against (short) supply disruption. During the fuel transport strikes in France I kept filling my diesel tank full when I could and had a few jerry cans as well. (We had to park up my wife's car for a few weeks because we ran out of petrol)

I can't help but think that the old 'technology will solve the problem' is running out of steam and what we need is a fundamental and unpopular change in lifestyle: less of everything. Since I work from home I do a fraction of the miles I used to do.
Post #979675 25th Jan 2023 7:33am
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Bowbearer



Member Since: 12 Aug 2022
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I think the Government see Electric as a stop gap. They didn't invest in the Battery Factory in the North East and are investing silly money into Bacton to turn it into a Hydrogen plant.
Post #979869 26th Jan 2023 2:27pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
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The issue is not really getting an engine to run on hydrogen, that's been around for many many years. The difficulty with hydrogen is the production, transport and storage. You need a lot of energy to make it and it is much more difficult to handle than petrol or natural gas. I think it's going to be best suited to depot or site based vehicles that return to a single place for refueling, so I think you'll see its use in heavy trucks and plant (as here) for that reason, plus their unsuitability for batteries will offset some of expense and inconvenience that'll come with hydrogen. I can't see a big network of publicly available hydrogen filling stations taking over from the petrol station we have now.

Regarding whether the grid will handle the load of electric charging... I've heard directly from National Grid that the National and Regional distribution networks (I don't recall the correct terms here) are fine, but it is local distribution that will struggle. However, to paper over that issue until it's fixed they are now installing charging stations with a big battery alongside that sort of trickle charges at a tolerable rate constantly even when the chargers aren't in use, and this then feeds the high demand of the chargers when needed. It's sort of like a buffer, like how a water header tank in a house works. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #979891 26th Jan 2023 5:23pm
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Berni99



Member Since: 02 Jan 2022
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Excellent comments Bluest. Thanks for the effort.
Post #979912 26th Jan 2023 6:23pm
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90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
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United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
Bowbearer wrote:
I think the Government see Electric as a stop gap. They didn't invest in the Battery Factory in the North East and are investing silly money into Bacton to turn it into a Hydrogen plant.


It was likely a lame duck before it even got going, some strange happenings today the least - no fan of this lot but they called it right in holding back any public cash

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/...production
Post #979926 26th Jan 2023 9:06pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
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Bowbearer wrote:
I think the Government see Electric as a stop gap. They didn't invest in the Battery Factory in the North East and are investing silly money into Bacton to turn it into a Hydrogen plant.

That wasn't a policy-based decision, though. It was because that specific project didn't do what they said they would to meet the criteria to receive the money. Darren

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Post #979975 27th Jan 2023 7:19am
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lord-haggis



Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
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United Kingdom 
Synthetic fuels will be our main stay for decades to come.

Electric cars really need to be able to do tripe if not four or five times the distance of a ICE car to really be a proper long term solution, not just an equivalent.

I know in certain circumstances at present you can run an EV for a lot less, however the days of free charging will end.

For plant, haulage, farming etc Hydrogen and electric will leave us with a lot of expensive junk sat about in a couple of years.

All IMO of course. Belize Green TD5 110 Double Cab aka Le Farm Truck
Post #979989 27th Jan 2023 8:26am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
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Free charging in Stirling city ends on 1st Feb - cost is not unreasonable 35p/kW on fast chargers, 25p/kW on the slow AC chargers. It had to come and wasn’t going to last for ever and it’s still a huge amount cheaper than charging at the likes of Gridserve and Ionity - it would help if commercial CPO’s didn’t have to levy 20% VAT on charging whereas VAT is only 5% if you charge at home. And in 2025 VED of £165 will be levied on all EVs, it’s zero at the moment Epsom Green Tdi300 County - on 15/07 I handed on to a new keeper after 21 years in my care
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Post #980022 27th Jan 2023 11:22am
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