↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Off Topic > An interesting video proposing an alternative future...
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 2 12>
Print this entire topic · 
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
An interesting video proposing an alternative future...
I came across this video yesterday (which I don't think has been posted before, apologies if it has) in which Lord Bamford makes a very sensible and coherent argument for the hydrogen internal combustion engine as an alternative to "battery mania" or the (still incredibly expensive) hydrogen fuel cell technology.

On the face of it, a 100% clean engine using well-understood technology which costs very little more than a current IC engine seems almost to good to be true, yet it is already running.

His comments about the balance between power source, duty cycles, and cost seem to make sense to me.

Perhaps Ineos will offer a Hydrogen IC option on the Grenadier in due course, that would, to my mind, be a game-changer.



I rather suspect from the video that Elon Musk is not on Lord Bamford's Christmas card list! Laughing
Post #914216 27th Jul 2021 8:45am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
Heโ€™s right about batteries being no good for heavy duty applications, but Iโ€™m not convinced hydrogen will save us. It is woefully inefficient to make and difficult store and transport. Also I donโ€™t know what emissions standards are like for off highway plant, but hydrogen produces NOx when burned in an IC engine which is why it is not being developed much by manufacturers. Maybe the way diggers operate (more contant engine speed) means they can control the NOx better. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #914219 27th Jul 2021 9:07am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
AMBxx



Member Since: 24 Jul 2016
Location: York
Posts: 980

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey
Apparently NOx is much lower than for regular IC engine.

Personally, I think the bigger problem for Hydrogen is the method of production. For all the talk of cracking water using green electricity, the vast majority of Hydrogen production is just cracking hydrocarbons. Yet another shift of where the pollution is generated.
Post #914224 27th Jul 2021 9:47am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
AMBxx wrote:
Yet another shift of where the pollution is generated.


And this is really what it all comes down to.
Post #914243 27th Jul 2021 11:52am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
It's all interest g stuff, but can't think of Bamford as doing anything other than looking after his own vested interests ~ turning up in a helicopter perhaps shows where he's at on the climate change debate. Although, given the quote from the article below, then maybe that's a good thing:

"Instead of a miraculous ability to redistribute power to the people, one of the main properties of hydrogen turned out to be relieving its backers of their wealth."


Click image to enlarge


https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-sepa...pply-side/
Post #914294 27th Jul 2021 4:51pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3000

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
AMBxx wrote:
Apparently NOx is much lower than for regular IC engine.

Personally, I think the bigger problem for Hydrogen is the method of production. For all the talk of cracking water using green electricity, the vast majority of Hydrogen production is just cracking hydrocarbons. Yet another shift of where the pollution is generated.


Interesting article on the subject here: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/climate...e=Homepage WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.
Post #916602 12th Aug 2021 4:35pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Talking of JCB producing clean vehicles...

"JCB failed to do human rights checks over destruction of Palestinian homes

JCB, the British tractor firm, has been found by a UK government watchdog to have failed to carry out due diligence human rights checks over the potential use of its equipment to demolish homes in the occupied Palestinian territories (OPT)."

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/1...hdog-finds
Post #929514 12th Nov 2021 5:23pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1342

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
So you have to check the human rights records of people you're selling construction equipment to.

Meanwhile UK arms dealers are selling their wares around the world and whole world is happy to do business with Saudi Arabia, China and Russia.

....just don't sell them any excavators!
Post #929540 12th Nov 2021 8:37pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3136

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green
Wasn't JLR involved in something similar when some dodgy middle eastern regime was rounding people up to be brutalised...in Defenders? 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"
Post #929553 12th Nov 2021 9:55pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Send e-mail Reply with quote
Jabberwocky



Member Since: 27 Oct 2021
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 191

Luxembourg 
DSC-off wrote:
So you have to check the human rights records of people you're selling construction equipment to.

Meanwhile UK arms dealers are selling their wares around the world and whole world is happy to do business with Saudi Arabia, China and Russia.

....just don't sell them any excavators!


My thoughts exactly, big nasty tractor firm selling machinery that could be used to knock stuff down. Meanwhile UK government pleasures some of the nastiest regimes on the planet to sell some jet which are only used for one thing๐Ÿ™„๐Ÿ™„

Oh and apparently the very same regime somehow manages to pass the fit and whatever test to buy Newcastle Utd.๐Ÿ™„๐Ÿ™„

One wonders who Bamford has Censored off.
Post #929569 13th Nov 2021 12:26am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
22900013A wrote:
Wasn't JLR involved in something similar when some dodgy middle eastern regime was rounding people up to be brutalised...in Defenders?

JLR had a case brought against them in 2018 by the Bahrain Institute for Rights and Democracy (BIRD). BIRD is a Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) based in the United Kingdom.

It was related to their sponsorship of the Royal Windsor Horse Show.

"The complainant alleges that in the course of organising and/or sponsoring the Royal Windsor Horse Show (RWHS), the companies acted inconsistently with the General Policies (II) and Human Rights (IV) sections of the OECD Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises (the Guidelines) and are linked to human rights abuses by their business relationships with the Bahraini authorities."

The watchdog took forward the case against HPG, a UK based events company that organised the show, but had the view that JLR were "not sufficiently linked to the party causing the alleged harm, for the Guidelines to apply".

https://www.oecdwatch.org/complaint/bird-vs-jaguar-land-rover/
Post #929577 13th Nov 2021 7:10am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Jabberwocky wrote:
...One wonders who Bamford has Censored off.


The obvious answer would be the sycophantic Muskophiles whose tunnel vision makes them believe that the only future is an electric future.
Post #929588 13th Nov 2021 9:34am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3136

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green
Supacat wrote:
22900013A wrote:
Wasn't JLR involved in something similar when some dodgy middle eastern regime was rounding people up to be brutalised...in Defenders?

JLR had a case brought against them in 2018 by the Bahrain Institute for Rights and Democracy (BIRD). BIRD is a Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) based in the United Kingdom.

It was related to their sponsorship of the Royal Windsor Horse Show.

"The complainant alleges that in the course of organising and/or sponsoring the Royal Windsor Horse Show (RWHS), the companies acted inconsistently with the General Policies (II) and Human Rights (IV) sections of the OECD Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises (the Guidelines) and are linked to human rights abuses by their business relationships with the Bahraini authorities."

The watchdog took forward the case against HPG, a UK based events company that organised the show, but had the view that JLR were "not sufficiently linked to the party causing the alleged harm, for the Guidelines to apply".

https://www.oecdwatch.org/complaint/bird-vs-jaguar-land-rover/


Hmm, no ot wasn't that one. It was something like journalists being dragged off the street by armed men in Landrovers in the middle east somewhere, some connection with a CKD operation but the details escape me. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"
Post #929600 13th Nov 2021 12:03pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Send e-mail Reply with quote
DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1342

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
blackwolf wrote:
Jabberwocky wrote:
...One wonders who Bamford has Censored off.


The obvious answer would be the sycophantic Muskophiles whose tunnel vision makes them believe that the only future is an electric future.


The bunch criticising JCB are probably luvvies of the loony left persuasion, terrorist sympathisers often seen at "Free Palestine" events.
This reminds me of Jeremy Corbyn on a stage welcoming "our friends in Hamas and Hezbollah"
Post #929620 13th Nov 2021 3:10pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1342

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Cummins are also developing Hydrogen powered ICE's, with some of the research done in Darlington UK.

https://thecea.org.uk/cummins-hydrogen-eng...platforms/
Post #929621 13th Nov 2021 3:20pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 2 12>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
DEFENDER2.NET RSS Feed - All Forums