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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16812

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
blackrangie wrote:
Good comment, you may be supprised upon reveal, heres hoping.
Target market will be defender owners that want more comfort, safety for themselves or fam, reliability, power and all the anoyances every owner tries to fix all gone. Not bashing defenders, i love them too, but we know this is reality. Also they will be targeting d3, d4 owners and some d5 owners, then there are conquest sales drom other brands that never bought the old defender due to the above issues and want something modern but capable, good looking and utilitarian.
Im tipping 200k sales per year within 2 years.


In other words the target market will be Defender owners who want an SUV rather than the worlds most versatile light truck.

Which is, of course, exactly why JLR has been swapping brand names around on their brands (such as the Freelander becoming the Discovery) and why the last few years of Defender production was so carefully targeted at the SUV market not the utility/working market. Also the reason for otherwise daft and pointless offerings such as the V8 70th edition - the only purpose of which is to make a statement in the new target arena.

it will be a great vehicle, but it's not a Defender.


(Edited for spelin)


Last edited by blackwolf on 22nd Aug 2019 9:42am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #788188 22nd Aug 2019 8:02am
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nakatanenga



Member Since: 12 Nov 2010
Location: Neumarkt
Posts: 546

Germany 
IAA Frankfurt is from 12th to 22nd, not on the 11th WANTED:

SII or SIII in max 1.5k
Post #788195 22nd Aug 2019 8:36am
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AndrewS



Member Since: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3706

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 SW Rimini Red
blackwolf wrote:
blackrangie wrote:
Good comment, you may be supprised upon reveal, heres hoping.
Target market will be defender owners that want more comfort, safety for themselves or fam, reliability, power and all the anoyances every owner tries to fix all gone. Not bashing defenders, i love them too, but we know this is reality. Also they will be targeting d3, d4 owners and some d5 owners, then there are conquest sales drom other brands that never bought the old defender due to the above issues and want something modern but capable, good looking and utilitarian.
Im tipping 200k sales per year within 2 years.


In other words the target market will be Defender owners who want an SUV rather than the worlds most versatile light truck.

Which is, of course, exactly why JLR has been swapping brand names around on their brands (such as the Freelander becoming the Discovery) and why the last few years of Defender production was so carefully targeted at the SUV market not the utility/working market. Also the reason for otherwise daft and pointless offerings such as the V8 70th edition - the only purpose of which is to make a statement in the new target arena.

it will be a great vehicle, but it's not a Defender.


(Edited for spelin)


Yep this is how I see it, I don't need a PTO lets face it who on here does!
Im wondering have health and safety rules and regulations also impacted on the utility/working market. There are new inventions like a tow behind access platform and new vehicles like the Polaris Ranger. All these useful pieces of apparatus water down the requirement for the need of the old Defender. Back in the day it was common to see Series vehicles working in the fields. I don't think I have ever seen a modern Defender towing a chain harrow. Farms and small holdings have been sold off to adjoining farms making them bigger so bigger kit is required. Its a different world now. 130's have feeling's as well you know Smile
Post #788219 22nd Aug 2019 10:13am
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Brucemknx



Member Since: 17 Nov 2013
Location: Kununurra
Posts: 44

Australia 1996 Defender 110 300 Tdi SW Caledonian Blue
blackwolf wrote:
...and why the last few years of Defender production was so carefully targeted at the SUV market not the utility/working market.

it will be a great vehicle, but it's not a Defender.


(Edited for spelin)


So if the Defender spent its final year’s being marketed as a SUV, then the upcoming release may well be considered to be the logical successor to the old one. Fortunately for some, there’s a Toyota 70 series forum just waiting to hear from you😄👍


Last edited by Brucemknx on 23rd Aug 2019 1:07am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #788220 22nd Aug 2019 10:15am
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4430

Ireland 
blackrangie wrote:
Good comment, you may be supprised upon reveal, heres hoping.
Target market will be defender owners that want more comfort, safety for themselves or fam, reliability, power and all the anoyances every owner tries to fix all gone. Not bashing defenders, i love them too, but we know this is reality. Also they will be targeting d3, d4 owners and some d5 owners, then there are conquest sales drom other brands that never bought the old defender due to the above issues and want something modern but capable, good looking and utilitarian.
Im tipping 200k sales per year within 2 years.


I have two Puma Defenders. One 2008 and the other 2011. I find the Puma extremely comfortable and both have been reliable and any issues were easily fixed so I am happy. The 2011 needs some mudflap brackets changed owing to corrosion so that will be done this weekend, Most people would change the car when it reaches 8 years of age but I'm changing the mudflap brackets! Interestingly (is that a word?) the brackets on the 2008 Puma are perfect.
I have a 1992 200 tdi which I have owned since 1996 and that is still going strong. It is a fine vehicle but the Puma has the edge for refinement and comfort on a long journey as well as oodles of power on tap. No need to wind up the turbo to over take.
Then there is the 1982 series 111 diesel but that was rebuilt on a galvanised chassis some years ago (posts and pictures here). Still I thought it was worth the effort to give the old girl some new body bits but the engine/gearbox and most other things are original.
You may guess the the New Defender will probably not appeal to me as I am happy with what I have,(wife included though there are many newer attractive upgrades out there) 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #788221 22nd Aug 2019 10:24am
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blackrangie



Member Since: 07 Jul 2019
Location: sydney
Posts: 181

Australia 
Bruce, this is just gold Laughing

Click image to enlarge
Post #788228 22nd Aug 2019 11:39am
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blackrangie



Member Since: 07 Jul 2019
Location: sydney
Posts: 181

Australia 
nakatanenga landrover press day at Frankfurt is on the 10th, all online to see, including the time.

Press days are 10,11
Show starts 12th as you say.
Post #788229 22nd Aug 2019 11:41am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16812

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
AndrewS wrote:
...
Yep this is how I see it, I don't need a PTO lets face it who on here does!
Im wondering have health and safety rules and regulations also impacted on the utility/working market. There are new inventions like a tow behind access platform and new vehicles like the Polaris Ranger. All these useful pieces of apparatus water down the requirement for the need of the old Defender. Back in the day it was common to see Series vehicles working in the fields. I don't think I have ever seen a modern Defender towing a chain harrow. Farms and small holdings have been sold off to adjoining farms making them bigger so bigger kit is required. Its a different world now.


I agree. It is interesting however to note that I regularly see during the summer months a Dorset County Council TDCi 90 Hardtop towing a gang mower in the playing fields of the local schools, or road towing the gang mower from one school to the next. It does still happen, although this is the only example I know of. Most of DCC's mowing undertakings are carried out by fast road tractors now, I have no idea why the local schools get a Defender.

Brucemknx wrote:
...
So if the Defender spent its final year’s [sic] being marketed as a SUV, then the upcoming release may well be considered to be the logical successor to the old one.


Undoubtedly true, it is the successor to what the Defender had become, as a result of the Defender morphing more and more into what the Discovery was created to be. Clever marketing, and good product evolution.

It is inevitable, since the world no longer really has a place for the vehicle that was the rasin d'etre of the orginal Land-Rover. Now you either go down the more generic, SUV route, buy a pickup truck, or you go down the specialised niche vehicle route such as a Polaris, or more likely one of each according to your needs. It probably reflects that relative affluence of society and the fact that we can afford multiple, throw-away vehicles rather than a single multipurpose enduring one.

It won't stop me from lamenting the real Defender, however, but I also lament the passing of many other old ways and artefacts, from good manners to steam locomotives.
Post #788231 22nd Aug 2019 12:05pm
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Yulong



Member Since: 18 Nov 2017
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 110

United Kingdom 
And here's me in the market for a pickup... fortunate timing, perchance? Very Happy
Post #788240 22nd Aug 2019 1:36pm
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defender9



Member Since: 12 Mar 2016
Location: Fylde Coast
Posts: 1611

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
I still hope there will be a non too complicated and blinged up utility version at a sensible price. I think back to my 2 door Range Rover which I owned many years ago and although quite sparse inside was very comfortable, would tow anything I needed was great off road and pleasant on road. My D3 was also a superb all rounder and if the new one is similar but more modular with excellent design and build quality I think I would be quite happy.
Post #788243 22nd Aug 2019 2:04pm
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3748

 
I’m not worried about what it is called but in the price bracket it will have to be dam near perfect to compete against the other utility and commercial vehicles available. To me it seems the sales boys at JLR are aiming at the Chelsea Tractor brigade with too much money to spend rather than the bread and butter buyers who have bought Land Rover products steadfastly over the years. If you are paying the price of a dammed good car for a utility then you need to be getting something that is at least as well put together as a car, no rain water dripping into the footwells as you drive along, no gutters dripping on you if you open a door, no dust coming inside if you drive a dried up track or river bed, standard headlights that actually light up the road / trail and dials you can read in the dark.......... on the longevity front, with so many cars bought on PCPs and leased what incentive is there for a car maker to make a vehicle the will last longer than the warranty is given for, they want us all to buy a new car every 3 years, even if many of us don’t want to follow that path. If a car lasts 20 years then production will grind to a halt and instead of new cars they will only be making/selling spares Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #788249 22nd Aug 2019 2:41pm
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blackrangie



Member Since: 07 Jul 2019
Location: sydney
Posts: 181

Australia 
LR are on record saying it will priced from volume buyers through to high end.
Post #788254 22nd Aug 2019 2:48pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
The trouble is that those calling for a basic utility version (me included) are in a vanishingly small minority. I just can't see it being worth LR's time selling something in that category, as much as I would love them too. Toyota launched their commercial Land Cruiser in the UK last year and I don't think I've seen a single one on the road. Be interesting to see the sales figures. The Japanese pick ups have already got the professional users for a much lower price and technically more basic vehicle than JLR would want to be associated with.

Where the new Defender might be of interest, but at a much higher price, is they might want a piece of the recreational 4x4 market in the US. That has really boomed with the Toyota TRD Pros, Wrangler Rubicon, Ford Raptor etc. Imagine a Defender SVR aimed to compete with those? Could be tremendously impressive. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #788262 22nd Aug 2019 3:01pm
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blackrangie



Member Since: 07 Jul 2019
Location: sydney
Posts: 181

Australia 

Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge


This is said to be a basic utility version, not to be mistaken with a ute Wink
Post #788265 22nd Aug 2019 3:06pm
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22900013A



Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3139

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green
More likely just a "poverty spec" version. Even the older disco models could be had on steel wheels. Still looks like a station wagon body under the covers.

The fact they are totally different to any rim ever fitted to a proper Defender speaks volumes... 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"
Post #788276 22nd Aug 2019 4:30pm
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