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EastFreo

Member Since: 24 May 2014
Location: Perth
Posts: 103

Look forward to seeing a dual cab. Won’t be ever selling my 110 (or the old tdi I got from my dad) but we need a it’s or tray top for the farm.

19th Jan 2019 4:36pm

Badger110

Member Since: 06 Feb 2018
Location: South hams
Posts: 1025

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Buckingham Blue

Supacat wrote:
I'm not sure the actual sales figures support your narrative:

Click image to enlarge

The real damage to the model came in the 80s with the huge decline in the RoW export market based on poor build and reliability. The UK & European market has been "relatively" flat - excepting the jumps for new model/engine variants introduced since then and I'd argue it's been a niche market ever since then.

If you look at the model sales across the whole of JLR - it's many of the Jag models you'd want increased sales from before messing with the Defender.

They've got greedy and pushing for 50k and then 100k sales per annum from the new Defender means the design brief will never fit the narrow parameters that made sense to the current owners.

I didn't mention sales figures?

What I was trying to say ( albeit in a roundabout way ) is that i feel the need for a vehicle like the original series, 90's,110's and defenders is no longer needed with the market producing cheaper and more reliable alternatives. The niche area it had in the beginning has gone, and the graph shows the decline of sales which is a visual representation it could be said. When it was first produced there was virtually nothing like it and it had the market, ie the rural buyers ( farmers ), then the MOD and the services ( police, utilities etc ), which is the market is was built for and these kept things afloat.

Over time these buyers moved onto to other models/manufacturers ( except the MOD ) and so to produce another series/defender in the same light as the original, i can't see how that would work in todays market.

What they produce won't be a Defender in the sense of what I use or see one as. Like VW and BMW, they'll take a proven name and style and drag it into the future but in a way which suits it's new surroundings.

:edit: i will say if they produce a good pick up, then i think they'll be onto a winner.

19th Jan 2019 6:56pm

Badger110

Member Since: 06 Feb 2018
Location: South hams
Posts: 1025

AndrewS wrote:

Badger110 wrote:
nowadays there are a multitude of vehicles that do the job a defender does, better and cheaper.

Like what?

Discovery...far cheaper 2nd hand than a Def these days and just as capable.
Landcruiser...88 or 91, again cheaper.
Hilux...although a pick up, with an Ifor back on it, may lag slightly behind on off road axle twisty stuff but far more reliable. However probably just as expensive

In fact most Japanese 4x4's will do it, price wise 2nd hand, much cheaper.

19th Jan 2019 7:17pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16856

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

None of those will take a cherry picker etc though. They are not equivalent to a Defender.

19th Jan 2019 8:16pm

Bluest

Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3995

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

I’ve seen quite a few Hi Lux with cherry pickers on, plus all the other adaptations utility companies like, big winch, canopies with roller shutters etc. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

19th Jan 2019 8:45pm

cozz

Member Since: 15 May 2013
Location: nottingham
Posts: 521

im still waiting for a 110 van - hopefully they are doing one

19th Jan 2019 9:22pm

Ramajama

Member Since: 28 Jul 2016
Location: Heartland, ‘Murica
Posts: 109

Click image to enlarge

Badger110 wrote:
AndrewS wrote:

Badger110 wrote:
nowadays there are a multitude of vehicles that do the job a defender does, better and cheaper.

Like what?

Discovery...far cheaper 2nd hand than a Def these days and just as capable.
Landcruiser...88 or 91, again cheaper.
Hilux...although a pick up, with an Ifor back on it, may lag slightly behind on off road axle twisty stuff but far more reliable. However probably just as expensive
In fact most Japanese 4x4's will do it, price wise 2nd hand, much cheaper.

I bought an 04 Disco 2 for myself in fantastic shape for a song last month. I got an 03 Disco 2 for my wife last week for half of what I gave for the 04.

Also in excellent shape. I think I may have an addiction.... 2018 RAM Power Wagon (American Muscle)
2003 Land Rover Discovery II HSE 7 (Still deciding on its role)
2004 Land Rover Discovery II SE (British Steel...& aluminum)
2015 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE Lux (Soccer Mom car)

20th Jan 2019 4:58pm

Ramajama

Member Since: 28 Jul 2016
Location: Heartland, ‘Murica
Posts: 109

AndrewS wrote:
Badger110 wrote:
uot;] when a disco will do the same job and it'll do it in more comfort in these modern times?

Agreed if you are talking about the D3/4 but disagree if you are discussing the D5

How exactly can you disagree about the D5? Have you seen what serious enthusiasts are doing with and to the D5? Its also better in stock form with its only limitation being the stock tires. The D5 is 1000lbs lighter than the D3/D4 with better approach/departure angles, better air suspension. Its better in nearly every way. Come on now, Let’s not let the jaded attitude of the departure from the old D3/4 design and its average target market cloud judgement on its off road chops. The D5 CAN kick a$$ and it DOES. That’s just the reality of it.

Click image to enlarge 2018 RAM Power Wagon (American Muscle)
2003 Land Rover Discovery II HSE 7 (Still deciding on its role)
2004 Land Rover Discovery II SE (British Steel...& aluminum)
2015 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE Lux (Soccer Mom car)

20th Jan 2019 5:29pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

I'm so sorry but that is just not doing anything for me.

20th Jan 2019 7:05pm

Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3009

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

The D4 looked fantastic but every time I see a D5 I think Vauxhall Frontera.

How on earth did they manage to balls it up so badly?

I'm still hopeful but it doesn't bode well for the Defender.

20th Jan 2019 7:16pm

AndrewS

Member Since: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3707

2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 SW Rimini Red

Ramajama wrote:
AndrewS wrote:
Badger110 wrote:
uot;] when a disco will do the same job and it'll do it in more comfort in these modern times?

Agreed if you are talking about the D3/4 but disagree if you are discussing the D5

How exactly can you disagree about the D5?

Simple I have owned one for the last 19 months. I've put it through a proper workout. It's no where near the robust vehicle the D3/4 was. I have just sold it. Don't get me wrong it's a great car it's simply not a work horse.

Click image to enlarge 130's have feeling's as well you know

20th Jan 2019 10:37pm

diduan

Member Since: 13 Oct 2016
Location: Central Balkan
Posts: 260

For me the d5 lacks everything you need for offroading. I am done only by loocking on the tire options : 255/55/R20 and 21". Defender 110 SW MY2011 2.4tdci decat, no EGR
Jeep Wrangler YJ 1990 4.0. Front 78' Dana 60, Rear CUCV 14 bolt

21st Jan 2019 8:26am

Badger110

Member Since: 06 Feb 2018
Location: South hams
Posts: 1025

blackwolf wrote:
None of those will take a cherry picker etc though. They are not equivalent to a Defender.

Western Power Distribution have been replacing their Defenders with cherry pickers on Hilux and Isuzu based pick up platforms.

I looked at buying one of their Defender cherry pickers 2 years ago when they came up for sale locally.

When i went to view it, it was sat next to one of their new ones as they were upgrading their fleet.

21st Jan 2019 12:14pm

Badger110

Member Since: 06 Feb 2018
Location: South hams
Posts: 1025

Perhaps the demise of the D5 as a capable off reader may allow the new Defender to take up the reigns?

21st Jan 2019 12:18pm

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3139

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

Badger110 wrote:
blackwolf wrote:
None of those will take a cherry picker etc though. They are not equivalent to a Defender.

Western Power Distribution have been replacing their Defenders with cherry pickers on Hilux and Isuzu based pick up platforms.

I looked at buying one of their Defender cherry pickers 2 years ago when they came up for sale locally.

When i went to view it, it was sat next to one of their new ones as they were upgrading their fleet.

Yes seen a few D-Max pickers about now. Not long until the chassis bend considering they are half the thickness (ie depth) of a Defender chassis.
Still plenty of Defenders about though and will be in use for many years to come. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

21st Jan 2019 8:34pm

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