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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 12694

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Plus the need for crush cans for the airbags, I imagine.

Post #886814 20th Feb 2021 7:40pm
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boxoftricks



Member Since: 06 Feb 2019
Location: Home Counties
Posts: 531

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Zermatt Silver

It won't have the ground clearance of the new defender......

Post #886822 20th Feb 2021 8:11pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 12694

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

^^ I really don't care! Rolling with laughter

There are so many things in my world for which it will be more suitable than one of McGovern's monsters that that is really an irrelevance.

Post #886824 20th Feb 2021 8:15pm
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 981

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

It may not have the ground clearance of new Defender, but I suspect less damage will be done to the underpinnings when it does scrape its way over the boulders!!

Also, I'm sure the front bumper design will be as a result of the Euro pedestrian impact rules. Just take a look at the front bumper on the EU spec Wrangler, compared to the US. Even the Wrangler EU bonnet material and construction is different. Steel on the EU and Ali on the USA.

Post #886825 20th Feb 2021 8:19pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 9352

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

boxoftricks wrote:
It won't have the ground clearance of the new defender......


It certainly won't be doing this:


Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge

Post #886871 21st Feb 2021 7:09am
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1851

Scotland 

Might do this though:


Click image to enlarge

Post #886888 21st Feb 2021 9:26am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 9352

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

is that related to ground clearance or just a random failed axle?

Post #886892 21st Feb 2021 9:37am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 9352

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Hufflepuff wrote:
Supacat wrote:
Hufflepuff wrote:
So we are up to £45k now.


Up to? Where did you start from?


Well, as a old 'Defender' replacement, roughly in line with the Defender price at the end of manufacturing + inflation since then. What would that be, £30k->£35k?


MY16 110 Station Wagon was £34,200 OTR or £33,920 Retail Price.

Depending on what index you use that could be just below £40k.

Post #886894 21st Feb 2021 9:52am
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1851

Scotland 

No idea, point is you can break anything if you try hard enough.

We’ve all dented and scraped the underside of our vehicles on rocks/stumps etc. and I don’t think it makes one iota of difference beam axle to independent suspension - you just knock it in a different place!

Arguably the independent setup keeps the centre clearance higher and the diff out of harms way, but then the lower bits are at the wheel stations and would catch the edge of ruts etc. - swings and roundabouts.

Post #886895 21st Feb 2021 9:52am
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 9143

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

That picture of the bit of hi-lift jack pressed into service as part of the suspension is well documented. It was the result of some very overenthusiastic driving by a journalist who basically got it airbourne and landed on a rock. Not a ground clearance issue in the traditional sense. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER THREAD - Instagram: @landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

Post #886899 21st Feb 2021 10:03am
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ChasingOurTrunks



Member Since: 19 Aug 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 41

Black Puma wrote:
ChasingOurTrunks wrote:

(Gosh I hope the Grenadier has a modern interior...honestly that could be a deal breaker for me. I'd sooner accept the compromise of a complex New Defender to get a modern, comfortable interior than I would accept the compromise of the Gren's solid axles etc. if it doesn't have a modern interior - but my hopes are high because what they promised is modernity)


Interesting. What would you say to comfy durable seats, a cubby to put your small stuff, minimalist gauges, a holder for phone/tablet for all the infotainment and GPS you need, and.... rubber flooring so you can wash it out with a hose. And airbags obviously.

I love having rubber mats in my 90. Just spray it down, lift up the mats to dry. Couldn't deal with carpet or any creature comforts. I's admit the cup holder can be handy. And I really loathe the freelander instrument panelin the Puma. Fuel, eng temp, revs and speedo are all I'm interested in. I wish the Puma had something like the TD5 instruments.

For the Genadier, Trip counter, fuel calculator, outside temp, actually all other data could be sent to your device from the vehicle. Making the display tech future proof.

Myself, I'd really like the interior to be as minimal as possible, then you can make of it what you wish, that's the fun part.


Great question — what you describe is more or less what I’d like. A simple, hose-down interior. When I say modern I mean a couple of things:

1) The ability to get some creature comforts - remote start, heated seats basically. I love your idea of smartphone integration. I also really like JLR’s Active Key and would love an option like that. But again — I don’t think the base Gren should have these nor will it, I just want to be able to get these things or tech that gives this functionality. I also hope these are truly “add ons" and that the car still just starts with a key.

2) The rear passenger comfort has to be considered. Is tri-zone climate control an option? This is where JLR hit it out of the park in the New Defender.

3) Designed with the modern user in mind. I do want Car Play, but i want it in a Double-DIN system that is not tied into the vehicle’s ability to run (i.e. it can be replaced with any Double-DIN and the car will still work). I want USB ports, and I want them in cubbies where I have places to put things. I also want them near places where I logically would mount powered accessories — like having them up on top of the dash. And, I’d like this to be a bit future-proofed with USB-C. Finally, I really like MOPAR’s offering of the 4 OEM Auxiliary switches pre-wired to typical accessory mounting locations. Something like that with an auxillary fuse box (one just for accessories) that has room to grow (unused circuits) would be a home run in my bookies. I’d like the finishes inside to be modern and resilient by design, like neoprene or nylon or whatever, not because of chemical treatment (i.e. cotton with a waterproof coating).

Some of the above is “need to have”,. Some of it is “nice to have”. That’s why I’m anxiously awaiting the interior reveal. The New Defender is out WAY ahead for me because of its’ inside — it’s a nice enough place to be that I’d happily compromise on its complexity. If the Grenadier has a decently passable interior as above, then it will be neck and neck.

Post #887050 22nd Feb 2021 2:40am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5091

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey

I think much of what has been suggested is all I’d wish for as well. Main ones for me would be:

Comfortable, supportive seats in a proper, spacious driving position. Built in armrest.
Properly soundproofed transmission and engine. Less worried about tyre noise, or insulated doors, but engine/transmission a must. Roof would be good as well, with soft headlining, just to dampen interior noise.
Handful of effective and robust mod cons. USB (c) ports, sensibly positioned. AC that works, (personally don’t need it to be multi zoned as long as it works), same with the heater. Infotainment system, with common apps, quality GPS and some speakers that are appropriately laid out.
Good quality lighting
Carpet and rubber matting. I would personally be happy for the interior to be really retro, like the 70s Land Cruiser, so lots of painted metal, well thought out cubbies and without acres of plastic trim. Just on the door cards.


Click image to enlarge


On the floor, at the price they’re proposing, a full, removable carpet set AND rubber floormat set, so that one can be swapped with the other when needed, or the rubber can simply be placed on top.

Lashing points in the rear with bolted in d-rings
Easily removable middle row seats.

Etc etc Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey

Post #887052 22nd Feb 2021 6:54am
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ChasingOurTrunks



Member Since: 19 Aug 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 41

Quote:
AC that works, (personally don’t need it to be multi zoned as long as it works)


Grenadier this is exactly my standard as well -- I only ask for the dual/tri-zone because HVAC in 4x4 cars seems notoriously hard to do well. As long as it works to keep both front and rear passengers reasonably comfortable -- I don't mean "dialled in to the nearest half a degree Celsius" comfortable, but certainly not "hot in the front seat, freezing in the bacK" which has been my experience with almost every 4x4 I've owned. As long as the entire cabin space is vented properly with blowers to push hot or cold air around evenly, I'll be happy enough.

That's why I was waffling a bit on things like remote start -- I don't actually have a strong idea of what the interior needs to be like, I just would really like a certain experience with the car in general. The idea of a smartphone pairing is nice, for instance, not because I want it to be super technical but because I like having a backup in the event I lose my key on an adventure. A lost key is an incredibly common occurrence and it can really ruin a trip. In a similar real-world example, I ran out for groceries the other day and only at the till did I realize I forgot my wallet. Thankfully, my phone has Apple Pay, so I was able to make due without having to do the shop all over again after going home for my cash -- so it's more about using technology in a way that compliments the user experience, but not in such a way that it gets in the way of it. I don't want to have to depend on a charged battery in a device -- a key fob, a phone, or an Active Key-style armband -- in order to start this car -- all it should need is the metal key -- but I'd still like these "extra" conveniences as available.

I don't care much how they execute these things, either, I just care about having the outcome -- convenience/backup in this case, backseat comfort in the case of the climate control zones -- and I'm actually quite curious/interested how they are planning on achieving those outcomes with this vehicle (if they are going to at all) and what design choices they will make.

Post #887127 22nd Feb 2021 4:43pm
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Black Puma



Member Since: 31 Jan 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 60

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Sumatra Black

Good discussion. I see your points COT. Very valid.

The Puma Heater/Air Con, is pretty useless, but I have never used the heater and usually just open the windows when too hot, sometime use air con on Freeway. So others like yourself have much better input on that aspect.

USB outputs would be super helpful. And we can all agree that rear passenger comfort would be a strong plus!

Personally I can see the benefits of digital connectivity, and I would hope they are in the background to give users options. Maybe I am in the minority, who always takes two sets of car keys on long trips - my wife always wonders why I make her carry the spare!

Great points Grenadier, soundproofing where needed. And yep, and stripped back interior. All due respect to those that have made their Defender interior luxurious with leather and bling. But the 70's Land Cruiser, I dig that. Love the minimalism and purpose. Utilitarian for the win.

Most of all I hope it's future proof. Minimal interior. Minimal digital screens and gadgets on the pov spec. That stuff ages so quickly and always looks naf after 5 years. We all update out phones and devices, they can provide any information we need, even GPS.

Post #887180 22nd Feb 2021 9:02pm
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ChasingOurTrunks



Member Since: 19 Aug 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 41

Quote:

Good discussion. I see your points COT. Very valid.


Cheers! It's neat to see a discussion like this from folks all over the world and how similar our desires are for this new Grenadier. We're not all able to say "I want that specific thing", but all of us seem to have a "I'll know it when I see it" that's centred around practicality and usability.

Quote:


The Puma Heater/Air Con, is pretty useless, but I have never used the heater and usually just open the windows when too hot, sometime use air con on Freeway. So others like yourself have much better input on that aspect.

USB outputs would be super helpful. And we can all agree that rear passenger comfort would be a strong plus!

Personally I can see the benefits of digital connectivity, and I would hope they are in the background to give users options. Maybe I am in the minority, who always takes two sets of car keys on long trips - my wife always wonders why I make her carry the spare!


100% agreed here on the connectivity piece. I'm totally OK that it's an option but if it's on the fritz I want to be able to pull a fuse and carry on until such time as I can devote the time and energy to fixing it. But yes, good call on the two sets of keys. Our problem is rarely forgetting the keys at home -- for us, on almost every trip, in the first few days one or both of us forgets the keys in the tent pocket of our RTT -- after it's been packed up! Cue the groaning and whining as we unpack all over again and start fresh!

With regards to the HVAC -- I used to love the heater in my jeep because it got so hot so fast, but I soon realized why that was. The vehicle itself was poorly insulated. Any time the temps dropped below -20 Celsius, highway trips would become unpleasant because my left leg (left hand drive) would be cold pretty quickly, while my right leg would be very warm. Often we'd have to keep jackets on in the car, and so while I've put up with misery and could again for the right rig, I'd really like it if we didn't have to with this Grenadier

Quote:


Great points Grenadier, soundproofing where needed. And yep, and stripped back interior. All due respect to those that have made their Defender interior luxurious with leather and bling. But the 70's Land Cruiser, I dig that. Love the minimalism and purpose. Utilitarian for the win.

Most of all I hope it's future proof. Minimal interior. Minimal digital screens and gadgets on the pov spec. That stuff ages so quickly and always looks naf after 5 years. We all update out phones and devices, they can provide any information we need, even GPS.


Yup - I'll take the simplicity of the 70 series with a "modern twist" -- as in, using materials that won't crack in the sun in 5 years time, but that have a similar utilitarian feel to them. And I totally agree with you on future-proofing. I really hope the interior designers of Ineos stumble on threads like these and take notes!


In related news, while we wait for the Grenadier interior, we can now outfit our own personal exteriors (and our pubs) with Grenadier kit; I just got this e-mail this morning:

https://merchandise.ineosgrenadier.com

Given they are trying to generate hype I don't think they would mind if I share the promo code I got -- "kittedout10" saves you 10% if anyone wants to order something.

Post #887394 23rd Feb 2021 11:54pm
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