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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018   
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Are you saying you have no visibley branded clothing?
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24th Feb 2021 9:27am |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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They need a catchy strap line for the clothes and marketing - something that reminds everyone that it’s a blatant copy of an old Defender, but just different enough to avoid legal issues.
“GRENADIRE - THE BOST 5x5 BY FAUX” - or maybe for the true off-road heroes, “ONE DESIGN, RIP IT” |
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24th Feb 2021 12:54pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3014 
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Very few in my wardrobe. Some items, like sports/outdoor/specialist gear it can be harder to avoid, but the stuff I buy generally has very subtle branding or none at all. Although it can sometimes be a minefield I also try my hardest to only buy from companies with similar ethos/values to my own. WARNING. This post may contain sarcasm. |
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24th Feb 2021 3:43pm |
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| ChasingOurTrunks Member Since: 19 Aug 2020 Location: Canada Posts: 89 |
Branded gear is not really my jam either -- my view is basically the same as yours. To each their own, but if I'm paying cash for a product I reckon I ought to get a discount if it turns me into a walking billboard! There is one exception and that's when a brand transcends corporatism and ends up becoming a symbol for a community, but the Grenadier isn't there yet. In terms of why I shared the link, I signed up for news on the Grenadier so I get e-mails on updates, videos, etc. about a day before they push things out publicly, so I share them here in case others benefit; the Grenadier Merchandise thing was in the update from the other day so I figured I'd toss it out here. I can't see myself buying Grenadier stuff, but I can see the value in offering this merchandise so folks can buy people gifts that align with their interest. After all, a hat or set of pint glasses with a cool 4x4 on it under the Christmas tree sure beats another bottle of aftershave I won't use. As far as my point about the exception to my "minimal branding" approach: The "Icons" -- Land Cruiser, Defender, Jeep -- are icons for a specific community, so I can see branded kit being a way of engaging with that community. On more than one occasion I've wound up striking up a conversation and a friendship with a stranger because they had a Triumph Motorcycles sticker on their car, or a Land Cruiser hat on their head. I don't see those folks as advertising for Triumph or Toyota, but instead they are trying to communicate an interest to like minded enthusiasts. The Grenadier is wanting to shoulder space into that world of the Icons -- success is TBD of course -- but if they are successful, I can see a benefit in a bit of Grenadier kit for that "spot a fellow 4x4 enthusiast from across the room" aspect. |
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24th Feb 2021 8:16pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3014
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That makes total sense. I suspect my issue in understanding was that despite all the money ineos throw at PR and greenwashing with all the sports teams and vanity projects like the Grenadier, I still can't view Ineos as anything other than a multinational petrochemical company. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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24th Feb 2021 9:20pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765  
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Briefly OT here. Have a bit of an issue with this thinking Zed. Ineos is only what it ‘is’ because it produces things we (humans) use and demand almost every day. Car parts, paints, textiles, lubricants, cleaning products, food packaging etc. Almost impossible to avoid in ‘normal’, everyday living. Judging by your comment about clothing I guess you head for brands like Paramo, (excellent BTW, have a look at this crew along similar lines https://www.skogstad.co.uk/environment), and therefore perhaps are able to never use plastic food packaging, only buy enviro friendly cleaning products etc, and well done you. But unless you live in a cave your life will be surrounded and inevitably made easier by the products Ineos make. Now, that’s not to say that’s a good thing. But awareness of the environment (beyond that of air pollution from burning fossil fuels) is a relatively new thing. A decade or so of genuine awareness by the population. Perhaps less. Indeed the UK only started banning plastic bags a couple of years ago. But we are aware, we are demanding change, Government’s are demanding more ownership by companies, and it is happening. The best people to effect change once demanded by the people, are the giants such as BP, Ineos etc as they have the infrastructure, the expertise, the budgets. But it takes time to turn a behemoth 180 degrees. I’m no apologist for big petrochemical firms, but for years our lives have been easier because of what they do (flying on holiday, getting your clothes whiter than white, cheaper mobiles and tablets, running our cars, making our food last twice as long etc) so blaming them for it, when all they’ve done is supply demand, is a bit harsh. If you want to blame anybody, blame Tesco for telling you that fruit should be packaged in cellophane, Apple for telling you that a tablet should only weigh 15 ounces, EasyJet for telling you you can fly anywhere in Europe with the change in your pocket and Ford for suggesting the interior of your car will look better with swoopy plastic trim. Indeed, you could even blame vegans, as where do you think the vegan leather you find in cars comes from? And then blame the consumer for falling for all of the above. Hard to, but where we are now has been led by big brands, accepted and then demanded by the consumer and only then furnished by Ineos.  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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25th Feb 2021 8:33am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Yes this is Ineos building the Grenadier, albeit a separate legal entity from the petrochemicals division. However, it is very much the vision of an individual. An individual who I believe to be very much a genuine off road enthusiast. As much as you or me, if not more. He's driven and motorcycled in some extreme terrains; and hasn't used his money to set up Namibian launch type events but rather taken a more basic approach.
Yes he has all the trappings of a billionaire ~ country estates, yachts, etc but like other people with a passion I can share* it's interesting to watch how they go. As far as I have read we on this forum seem to have more in common with this area of interest with him, than Gerry McG or most of the senior management at JLR. I welcome his approach. * Robert Bollinger, Christian von Koenigsegg, Horacio Pagani, Bruce Mclaren, Frank Williams, Gordon Murray, Colin Chapman, Keanu Reeves, Drew Bowler, Simon Saunders, John Foers |
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25th Feb 2021 9:01am |
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| ChasingOurTrunks Member Since: 19 Aug 2020 Location: Canada Posts: 89 |
I just read @Grenadiers and @Supacats responses and that was interesting to me but I took a different lens on this, Zed. I'm reminded of Simon Sinek's "Start with Why" TED Talk. He makes the point that when Dell tried to sell TVs, nobody bought one -- because why would you buy a TV from a Computer company? And yet, people don't scoff at buying phones from Apple. The difference being, he argues, that people don't buy "What you do" they buy "why you do it". This is well worth a watch if folks are interested: https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_...anguage=en But besides the above-linked talk, I think it speaks to how I was seeing Ineos and aligns a bit with what Supacat was saying I think about sharing a passion with a billionaire. I wasn't even aware of Ineos the company until the Grenadier came along. So for me, I only know about Jim Ratcliffe's "Why" as articulated by the Grenadier (And while I believe it's true, it doesn't matter much if it's an honest belief or a marketing exercise if the proof is in the pudding). That "Why" for the Gren is a very compelling case for me to buy a car from a chemical company. |
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25th Feb 2021 8:50pm |
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| ChasingOurTrunks Member Since: 19 Aug 2020 Location: Canada Posts: 89 |
Software Glitched and made a double-post; apologies. Feel free to nuke this one, Mods!
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25th Feb 2021 8:50pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3014
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I'd rather not derail the thread but I'm very aware of what they produce, both ineos and Ratcliffe's business practices and how that affects the industry, the planet and all of our lives. Anyway, back on topic and to the point I made: If you want to wear clothing with Ineos logo emblazoned all over it then all good, i'd never take issue with anyone’s fashion choices and stated as much. (I can't promise not to take the pss if I met you in the pub though..) I just asked what the appeal was as I honestly didn't know. ChasingourTrunks gave a decent explanation. Still not my thing but then we are all different. In my mind that's a good thing. WARNING. This post may contain sarcasm. |
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25th Feb 2021 9:59pm |
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| Slideywindows Member Since: 09 Sep 2016 Location: North Essex Posts: 1283 
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I'm beginning to think that the Rivian looks better than the Grenadier.
Is this the effect of too long in lockdown? |
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26th Feb 2021 6:13pm |
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| Black Puma Member Since: 31 Jan 2015 Location: Sydney Posts: 175 
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I'm hoping that the Grenadeir will look better in person, and in darker colours.
The electric truck makers, communicate very well in their design: minimalism, utilitarian and purpose. |
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27th Feb 2021 5:18am |
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| Black Puma Member Since: 31 Jan 2015 Location: Sydney Posts: 175
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Really enjoyed that Ted talk, 17.30 minutes well spent. Thanks for sharing. Simon Sinek, a really great story teller for making a valid point. |
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27th Feb 2021 5:23am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3014
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I think it's much better looking. The front end may take a bit longer to get used to but it's very distinctive and most of the features look like they are built for purpose not for design's sake. Ironically Grenadiers tagline is 'Built on purpose' but it just looks like a very bad Defender copy. Not a problem if treated as a tool but it isn't original or pretty by any stretch of the imagination. A hideous front end and those faux alpine window tie down things are laughable. WARNING. This post may contain sarcasm. |
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27th Feb 2021 8:11am |
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