 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Grenadier or Rivian R1S |
 
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 415  
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Even for occasional longer trips, home charging is generally fine. It’s not like you do those trips every single day, 7 days a week. For the longer trips you start off with a full battery and charge at a fast charger along the way or while eating or whatever.
The model for BEV use is completely different to an ICE, and, I’d argue, on average much more convenient. |
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31st Jul 2021 4:44pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765  
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Personally I think the question for a buyer, certainly in the short term (remember it’ll be decade before ICE are banned from sale on UK and other 1st world roads, but that can always change) is less about whether they want an EV or ICE as whether they want an SUV (in the true American sense as opposed to the EU ‘catch-all’ categorisation) or a utilitarian SUV. I just don’t see the Rivian or Grenadier being in the same category, nor do I think Rivian and Ineos have the same target market. Just look at them:
Luxury SUV (exterior, interior and marketing). Fashionable paint colour, funky LED lights, painted callipers, monster alloys, leather, wood, 100% digital dash, etc.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Utility 4x4 (exterior, interior etc.). Flat paint job, steel wheels, standard and easily repaired trim and fittings, cloth interior, chunky switches etc. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Chalk and cheese IMHO. Initial tests indicate that the Rivian will be a very capable off road SUV, so perhaps it’s look, style, price and (therefore) target market would be more closely aligned with that of any future Defender EV rather than the Grenadier, whether short term ICE variant or future EV. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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31st Jul 2021 5:12pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952 
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Fair enough, but I was alluding to the US buyer, who is a different type of buyer. I really do see an overlap there. Remember, they are going to both be very close in price. But I wanted other's opinions on whether or not they thought the same, so thanks. Now left.
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31st Jul 2021 5:35pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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I think your personal prejudices are showing there... The first vehicle out of the same French factory sold over 24,000 in the 1st year of sales in the US. They have no issues with where it's made. Ask yourself, does Ineos have any intention of sending them anywhere near that number to begin with? |
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31st Jul 2021 6:43pm |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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If anyone hasnt seen the trip ewan mcgregor and charlie borman took up through south america etc, they went on electric harleys and 2 rivian pickup trucks, which even though prototypes seemed to cope very well.
I hope both new brands do well, and can see a place for both of them. Additionally,id assume the first decision for most right behind price/monthlies will be BEV or ICE..... Im not ready for ICE yet especially in a vehicle im likely to go on vacation in and do some serious daily mileage, too much hassle. That rules out the rivian for me. Give it a few more years and im sure that will be a different sum. just to add.... i think the US will be tough for either brand. if its not a jeep, chevvie or ford for quite a sizeable part of the market they wont be interested. same with the ozzies, toyota or nissan. they laugh at you if you drive a LR! Having said that ineos/rivian dont need to take over the market - its a big big market. |
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31st Jul 2021 7:21pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1567 
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Hasn’t the prototype of the grenadier been launched with fancy paint, piano black plastic and fancy led lights
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31st Jul 2021 7:37pm |
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| Ads90 Member Since: 16 Jun 2008 Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds Posts: 800 
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As much as I’m interested in the Grenadier, if I was dropping £50k+ on a new 4x4, I’d be hesitant to spend it on an ICE.
I think I’d rather spend that with e.g. ECC on converting my Defender to BEV, or look closely at the Rivian. |
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31st Jul 2021 8:47pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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As some have said, they believe Grenadier buyers and Rivian buyers are two differing buyers. But if you talk to 4x4 enthusiasts, you discover that in fact, they are not. They are really quite close, and the lines are very blurred (in my opinion). I am still trying to figure out who the Grenadier is actually aimed at. From what I read, the military don't consider it anything like a battlefield vehicle like the old Defender was. It isn't a luxury 4x4 like the new Defender (Discovery!) is. And it doesn't exactly shout out to utility companies with its pricing. So we're back to 'general' 4x4 buyers like those on this wider forum. That's a very small sector and, as I have said, it will get more competitive if and when the Grenadier launches.
To me, Ineos have got a number of things really quite wrong. For one thing, I would definitely have built it here, not France, I think that mistake was huge. And I need not go over much trampled ground on its looks and powertrain. Perhaps Ineos didn't foresee the growth in start-ups like Rivian and Canoo (I fully expect them to come up with a Rivian rival if they sort themselves out legally). If you read the daily motoring press, you'll read that there are quite a few companies on the edge of starting up - using a skateboard chassis and potential four wheel drive utilising two or even four electric motors. Sorry to repeat myself, but how can a 4x4 be so out of touch before it's launched? I like the Rivian, though I wouldn't buy it as it's too large for my needs. But I would buy the Bronco and the EV Wrangler. And that's the problem for Ineos. They are launching into a world of competition which wasn't there back on that day in that pub. THAT'S how fast the world of motoring is moving. And it's set to move even faster. Now left. |
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31st Jul 2021 9:58pm |
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| Muddybigdog Member Since: 11 Apr 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 992 
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Do folks think, will the R1T and the R1S be able pass the UK and EU road safety regulations for passenger protection, as the front look quite slab fronted. As this was meant to be the reason what helped kill the original defender? Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200
Puma 90 XS - Sold D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold) Freelander 2 HSE - Sold Freelander 1 - Sold Disco 2 - Sold |
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1st Aug 2021 5:10pm |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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it would be a bit of a problem if it couldnt! I suspect that huge bumper is something to do with safety. As an aside, it makes a great seat
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1st Aug 2021 6:19pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1285 
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In my humble opinion the only thing that killed old style Defender was the bunch of clowns at JLR who thought it would be better to replace it with a Discovery type SUV. (Oh, wait a minute, they have one of those in the range already  ) . |
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1st Aug 2021 6:30pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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/\
How do I up-vote that comment? Now left. |
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1st Aug 2021 6:47pm |
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| What puddle? Member Since: 25 Oct 2013 Location: Reading Posts: 952
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For 'passenger' protection? I don't think that comes into it, but I suspect you meant 'pedestrian'. There are lots of cars on the road (and vans!) with a slab front, and there are even ones yet to be launched. Isn't the new Discofender unforgiving? Now left. |
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1st Aug 2021 6:54pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3750 
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It will be very interesting to see the Rivian’s electrical consumption when it gets off-road. In the much ridiculed TFL test of Bronco, Defender and Jeep PHEV the Jeep devoured its battery in no time at all - 3 or 5 miles range IIRC when on road it is some 24 miles Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! Last edited by Tim in Scotland on 1st Aug 2021 7:21pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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1st Aug 2021 7:02pm |
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