 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > There's a More Affordable Version Coming in 2022 |
 
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| seriesonenut Member Since: 19 Nov 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 1205  
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You can see history repeating itself here, the british motor industry merging and fighting for the same market, badge engineering and final collapse. Sad. Lets hope the new broom acts swiftly then. 2010 XS USW
1957 Series One 88 diesel 1958 Series One 88 4x2 |
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18th Apr 2020 1:45pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2522  
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With so many cars that are re=branded between manufacturers, if the Baby Bronco is not sold here by Ford then perhaps then JLR should do a deal to rebadge it as the smaller Defender.....
JLR had a relationship with Ford, in these times and the fact that the small Bronco is almost ready to go it is a thought. And Gerry wont have touched it so that most be good...  |
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18th Apr 2020 2:43pm |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3247 
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LR have to look to the future, electrification is desperately needed.
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18th Apr 2020 2:49pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3750 
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^ too true, Even Jaguar IPace isn’t built by Jaguar, it’s not even built in the UK..........JLR’s attempts to sell PHEVS hasn’t taken off because they are more expensive than the diesel versions, have about 25 miles too little battery capacity icompared to the latest BMW X5, it’s nearest competitor, the system is incredibly complicated to operate, software keeps crashing and when they run out of volts they have a woefully underpowered way too noisy 2.0 Petrol engine instead of a 3 0ltr that is more suitable to haul around more weight than the diesel versions. And Jaguar has no PHEV’s preferring to put all its eggs in a way over priced Tesla 3 competitor.. Telsa3 AWD is £46k and has 310 miles real world driving range on one charge, I-Pace starts at £64k and has 252 miles actual range (claimed is 292 after they updated the software because people were getting less than 200 miles) The IPace is woefully inefficient compared to all its competitors too - a Tesla3, E-Kona and E-Niro all use half the electricity that the I-Pace uses to go the same distance.
The longer we stay in lock down the more people will get used to cleaner air, less road noise and less aircraft roaring overhead - JLR needs to be ready to meet the demand for cheaper less polluting vehicles but is doing nothing. Last week Autocar showed the 5th Gen Range Rover............ PHEV version isn’t going to be available at launch and the BEV might come two-3 years down the line......... too late It’s almost as if JLR is willing it’s customers to abandon it! Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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18th Apr 2020 3:55pm |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3247
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This Defender will probably be my last full ICE vehicle, ideally I’d like to stay with JLR so hopefully they get something out over the next few years that’s sensibly priced.
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18th Apr 2020 4:48pm |
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| Morepower Member Since: 08 Jan 2013 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 630 
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I can't see them lasting two years.... Not losing as much as they are... Tata have already stated they are looking to offload car manufacturing as it hasn't made any money for 16 straight months.... So you've got a SAAB type affair coming very shortly I feel... Add in the post covid economic situation and who on earth is going to pay over the odds for JLR???.... It's not as though they are market leaders in BEV, PHEV.... or for that matter 4x4 anymore.... So even if they are bought out... we might have a BMW/Rover scenario... (That didn't end too well from my recollection ) It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse...
2013 Bowler 110 (Sold) 2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold) |
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18th Apr 2020 5:53pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3341 
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From a Jaguar view, it seems bizarre that it doesn't seem too long ago they were joyfully praising bringing in a three shift production rota and hiring staff left right and centre. A few years latter and it is a basket case!!
Reports like this do nothing for the confidence of investors:- https://www.fitchratings.com/research/corp...09-04-2020 |
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18th Apr 2020 6:05pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1285 
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Not to be a scaremonger, but If I had paid a deposit for a new Defender I would be thinking very seriously at this point in getting my money back.
It isn't just the uncertainty over JLR's future, but what happens to much of the dealer network if the supply of new vehicles and parts drops off a cliff? Are deposits ring fenced in an escrow type account, or are they being held by the dealers in their general trading accounts? If a dealer folds with a cash deficit, do those who have paid their deposits sit in the unsecured creditors queue along with everyone else in the same boat? And even if I got my new Defender, what sort of back up and warranty support could I expect when things go wrong, if the supporting infrastructure has collapsed? I do see parallels with SAAB and MG/Rover as others have mentioned earlier. Sorry if I am sounding alarmist, but I am really worried about the sustainability of many weak businesses once we exit from the current Covid situation. |
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18th Apr 2020 6:57pm |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 570
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I paid my deposit through my credit card by choice not necessity. I always do with large purchases so if the goods don’t turn up I have half a chance of recovery. I won’t be handing anymore cash over until collection day and I can see the keys. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE
RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten |
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18th Apr 2020 7:07pm |
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| Stuff Member Since: 06 Feb 2017 Location: Between cradle and grave Posts: 41 |
I have read in Martin’s websites that Gerry led the team that produced the D3. If he was the genius behind that design, then “chapeau”, I say (no doubt, many minds - designers and engineers - were authors of that ingenuity). It was infused with LR spirit: superb offroad despite its weight, super-practical in ways too numerous to mention, but I particularly liked the driving position, the cabin storage capacity, especially the bottle wells in the door cards, the yellow stand-up toggles for no-eyes suspension height and lo/hi gearbox selection, and the stick for manual gearbox command shift. To be honest, I took 2 years to warm to the brutal exterior shape, but it’s a masterpiece.
Gerry is a dandy and he’s carried it into his design. The D5 is so far from what I want as a replacement for my D4 - particularly a LR design - it makes me look at other marques ... and not necessarily a 4x4. I have read in the press that LR are disappointed with the D5 “reception”. They should be. I wrote on another of Martin’s websites before launch that I thought it would be great. In many respects it is. It drives nearly as well as my MY16 RRS2 SDV8 Dynamic, and far better than my MY16 D4 but it’s not the car I want. It’s a “sit in” not a “sit on” car; the tailgate corners are lethal for someone of my height, and probably for all but the shortest drivers, and beware opening the tailgate inside a domestic garage (a problem I have with my RRS2); the loss of the fold-down rear tailgate is a utilitarian disaster and a gift to BMW. The auto press speculation on the RRS3 and new FFRR designs suggests LR is going to continue on this path. I will not buy more of that. The new Deafener is a disappointment in price and structure - an expensive “car” with a a bodge in the 3rd pillar, which should not have left engineering or design. The optional 3rd pillar plaques (optional in the sense you can take them off if you buy the SWB version) reveal the conceit. Would it have been so hard to build in a steel roll cage to support the design, and to permit more vesatile designs, like a double cab? No? Well, if no, you’re probably already dead. Seriously, LR, wake up. Bling won’t cut it. You’re losing volume. You want to become Aston Martin? |
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18th Apr 2020 8:13pm |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3247
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I’ve stood by the brand through good times and bad, buying a Fl2 during the financial crisis when LR were desperate for a bail out so I’m not concerned about continuing with my Defender. Never paid anymore than £500 deposit on a car before its been delivered, if the worst were to happen it’s not a drastic amount of money to lose.
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18th Apr 2020 8:40pm |
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| Morepower Member Since: 08 Jan 2013 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 630
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Unfortunately J77, JLR have done themselves no favours of late.... Not listening to what customers wanted with the new Defender... (obviously the failed D5 project forced them in this direction, Although again... Listen to what your customers want!!!!, Hence the flop that is the D5, Yes you see a few of them on the road these days, But they are heavily discounted to get them out the door)... Quality is another big issue... The brand 'Thinks' it's a premium product... However in reality this is far from the truth... I have been on the receiving end of this many times personally....My boss at Yamaha, Bought a new RRSport... It broke down on the way home from the dealer and then the tailgate started to disintegrate over the last month... rattling and the electrics are starting to prove unreliable.... He was shocked to find it's all cheap plastics.... Which on a 100K motor is a joke....
Post lockdown will be the tell all... the factories will be closed for another month yet... So that's supposedly going to cost them a billion pounds..... It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse... 2013 Bowler 110 (Sold) 2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold) |
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19th Apr 2020 8:40am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16879 
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I think that the USP of the Landrover brand was the old Defender and its predecessors, and now that it's gone there is no USP except for a very tenuous link by name only the past. There is nothing that JLR makes today that you can't buy from another supplier. It is also absurd that there is so little differentiation between (competing) models in its own line-up.
This is not a robust basis for a business. |
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19th Apr 2020 9:18am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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"It’s expected to use a new platform that Land Rover calls the D10 and parent firm Tata dubs the Omega-Arc (for Optimal Modular Efficient Global Advanced Architecture)." For D10, read a cost optimised version of the D8 platform that underpinned the old Range Rover Evoque." So it's the Evoque, that's been value engineered in India... |
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19th Apr 2020 9:46am |
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