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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3748

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green
Martin wrote:
As per the rest of the forum I expect this thread to follow the standards of posting, interaction and attitude that everyone agreed to upon registering.

This is highly divisive topic and not one I am fully comfortable hosting here due to it being a source of arguments and therefore the massive resource required to police it.

If you cannot add reasoned and constructive input then please don’t - please take it elsewhere. It is not fair on me and I will not have the nature of the forum spoiled by a single discussion.

It's all good Martin, sensible people always up for a good robust discussion.
If it gets "personal", is it not possible for you to give that member a forum ban or "holiday" for a specified period,....that's what a lot of Aussie forums do.
Having said that, I reckon the behaviour on this forum is very good.
Pickles.


Last edited by Pickles on 4th Feb 2019 8:53pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #756110 4th Feb 2019 1:35am
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3000

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
Sadly my views have become a magnet for personal abuse so I'll leave this thread but I have tried to be civilised, follow forum rules and stick to actual facts. Whilst a few have cried "fake news" nobody could point to any specific falsehoods or mistakes. I would gladly stand corrected if anyone could point out any inaccuracies as I would never intentionally mislead.

My apologies to Martin for any agro caused and by way of thanks for all his hard work I have made another donation to the site.

Peace out.
Post #756137 4th Feb 2019 9:37am
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2260

Hi zed i know this is a car enthusiasts site and politics is a light the blue touchpaper sort of thing for lots on here ..the brexit thing is to important for our country to let people get away with the fake news nonsense.....

.The country is in a self imposed mess and i personally dont see a decent way out of it for years, others disagree and that is their right and as long as they are not rude or agressive i dont see how martin can object to an adult discussion on what is the most important political change in our lifetime.

Ted heath took us into the common market for sound economic reasons because we were broke..( i wish it stayed a common market) Leaving the eu is economic suicide but i believe in democracy and sometimes we make stupid decisions and have to live with it ..

but and this is a big but i do think the landscape and understanding of brexit has moved on significantly and we need to make sure it is still what the country wants ..and the only way you can do that is by a second referendum.......obviously people who won te first vote will disagree with this and i can see why they would do that but ita about time politics was about adult mature debate and reasoning and i see no problem with a second vote to confirm the countries wishes.
Post #756147 4th Feb 2019 10:36am
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6260

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
I wonder if leaving the EU will in any way stop people taking the P.

I was at work early the other morning and there was a young guy sleeping on the door step in the 'Freezing' cold. I don't know his back ground but based on a visual assessment he looked like he at least belonged in the UK.

He didn't have a hot drink let alone a house and yet;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8535625.stm


Evil or Very Mad

It's time those with similar sentiments to mine all got together and stopped paying taxes Very Happy

...should this be in the grumpy old man thread?
Post #756187 4th Feb 2019 12:59pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2260

Whatever system you set up (tax included)there will always be people on the fringe who will break,bend,streach the rules to milk the system and i can see little defence for that case in particular......However i personally would not want to label all economic migrants the same as the lady in the story........ for every story you read like this there are hundreds of migrants living ,working paying taxes and benefiting this country both economicaly and culturaly.You just dont see it in the papers!
Post #756209 4th Feb 2019 1:44pm
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6260

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
what annoys me is there appears to be preference to look after 'visitors', migrants, whatever you want to call them better than the poor folk already in this country.
it just seems to make no sense and encourages people to head for our shores in preference to all the countries they pass through to get here.
Post #756211 4th Feb 2019 1:49pm
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ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1726

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Surely the question is as a migrant solely dependant on state benefits have the resources to take a council to the EU courts?

And how the hell did he father 4 children between 2003 & 2004

And if the local council has trouble housing her and her children perhaps they could be re housed in a part of the country that might encourage her to move back to Denmark - next door to Caterham in Birmingham perhaps (only joking....)
Post #756247 4th Feb 2019 2:42pm
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19452

United Kingdom 
Mainly because of do gooders who would rather walk over someone British without a home and help out them over in these other places instead.

If they got their act together in these countries like most do and stopped some of their people bombing other countries and flying planes into skyscrapers then maybe countries like us, the USA, Russia, and many others wouldn't need to intervene.

Also, there is quite a lot of mention on this thread regarding a Customs Union.
The simple fact is, having a customs union is not leaving and is not an option.
Why should we be 'locked' into EU trade, why should we not be free to trade with all countries..

All this anti USA hate, which it is hate is nothing to do with Donald Trump it's to do with trying to sabotage a UK / USA trade deal. Plain and simple.
Obama was liked because of his 'back of the que' talk inspired from Mr Cameron, and that only from this end.
This is inspired by those with financial gain from the EU area only.

Why not broaden horizons, and why not do more in-house.
Why keep running our country down and keep rubbishing it when everyone has to live in it.

There are many on this thread that also own businesses, some of which who won't engage in this thread due to the simple fact they are tired of hearing absolute bias from the few with some temporary losses from EU connections.

There is a worldwide 4x4 market out there also, it isn't and doesn't have to be EU based at all.
If anything, they want to kill it with their ill thought out regs and laws to suit their own financial benefit.
And automotive manufacturers are and have been having far too much say on affairs that do not concern them.

The public are the economy and how they chose to spend and where, not billionaire business.

If anyone is to blame for decisions and or complications it's Mr Cameron for not setting it out correctly in the first place, then he wouldn't when he was going to do a runner anyway.

There has been no change of mind with the situation since the referendum, it was further re-I forced with a general election on top of that again.
Another referendum would be a neverendum and would only muddy the water which suits the EU amicably.
Holding another in 30 - 40 years time much like the time between the common market bite and 2016 on the other hand would be fine.
After all, we never had a choice in a lifetime sone of us.

Adjust and adap, it's what we're good at and the way in which most of us are spending is also changing and adapting.

I see no reason why everyone can't and won't get what they want both with EU markets and ROW.
Then everyone is happy, but that will not come with any customs union nor freeedom of movement for others to hop borders.
Of course they will not make their countries work, they will pull our quality of life down instead.
It is not racist but protection of our great country, that is nothing to be ashamed of at all.

I have no problem with people that want to have contact with EU countries, but I do have a problem with any of those who say it's EU and nothing elee.
That is not acceptable in any way shape or form and is selfish to the highest degree and that's where the left / EU hate towards the USA cones from because their country and economy is on the up as is ours by putting this back to the way wpthey were.
With blocking immigration and building on in-house manufacturing.

Adapt and branch into other markets, you might just find that it's even better and everyone gets what the want.
It's a win win situation, after a short time of adjustment. Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #756253 4th Feb 2019 3:05pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2260

Caterham wrote:
what annoys me is there appears to be preference to look after 'visitors', migrants, whatever you want to call them better than the poor folk already in this country.
it just seems to make no sense and encourages people to head for our shores in preference to all the countries they pass through to get here.
F
Cannot argue with that Caterham..........France has a better standard of living i would send them back to France!
Post #756262 4th Feb 2019 3:38pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2260

custom90steve wrote:
Mainly because of do gooders who would rather walk over someone British without a home and help out them over in these other places instead.

If they got their act together in these countries like most do and stopped some of their people bombing other countries and flying planes into skyscrapers then maybe countries like us, the USA, Russia, and many others wouldn't need to intervene.

Also, there is quite a lot of mention on this thread regarding a Customs Union.
The simple fact is, having a customs union is not leaving and is not an option.
Why should we be 'locked' into EU trade, why should we not be free to trade with all countries..

All this anti USA hate, which it is hate is nothing to do with Donald Trump it's to do with trying to sabotage a UK / USA trade deal. Plain and simple.
Obama was liked because of his 'back of the que' talk inspired from Mr Cameron, and that only from this end.
This is inspired by those with financial gain from the EU area only.

Why not broaden horizons, and why not do more in-house.



Why keep running our country down and keep rubbishing it when everyone has to live in it.

There are many on this thread that also own businesses, some of which who won't engage in this thread due to the simple fact they are tired of hearing absolute bias from the few with some temporary losses from EU connections.

There is a worldwide 4x4 market out there also, it isn't and doesn't have to be EU based at all.
If anything, they want to kill it with their ill thought out regs and laws to suit their own financial benefit.
And automotive manufacturers are and have been having far too much say on affairs that do not concern them.

The public are the economy and how they chose to spend and where, not billionaire business.

If anyone is to blame for decisions and or complications it's Mr Cameron for not setting it out correctly in the first place, then he wouldn't when he was going to do a runner anyway.

There has been no change of mind with the situation since the referendum, it was further re-I forced with a general election on top of that again.
Another referendum would be a neverendum and would only muddy the water which suits the EU amicably.
Holding another in 30 - 40 years time much like the time between the common market bite and 2016 on the other hand would be fine.
After all, we never had a choice in a lifetime sone of us.

Adjust and adap, it's what we're good at and the way in which most of us are spending is also changing and adapting.

I see no reason why everyone can't and won't get what they want both with EU markets and ROW.
Then everyone is happy, but that will not come with any customs union nor freeedom of movement for others to hop borders.
Of course they will not make their countries work, they will pull our quality of life down instead.
It is not racist but protection of our great country, that is nothing to be ashamed of at all.

I have no problem with people that want to have contact with EU countries, but I do have a problem with any of those who say it's EU and nothing elee.
That is not acceptable in any way shape or form and is selfish to the highest degree and that's where the left / EU hate towards the USA cones from because their country and economy is on the up as is ours by putting this back to the way wpthey were.
With blocking immigration and building on in-house manufacturing.

Adapt and branch into other markets, you might just find that it's even better and everyone gets what the want.
It's a win win situation, after a short time of adjustment.


edit .....Since the end of the second world war the usa has been a very poor friend to us ....And there is nothing to the special relationship..Obama could not get the colonial past out of his mind and trump would sell us down the river for the price of bleached chicken!I personaly would rather be part of the european block than a little island of the coast of europe who the big players of the next 50 years ,china india russia and usa will ignore!I know its hard for a little country who once ran the greatest empire the world has ever seen..but it is what it is!were minnows and we need to realise that.
Post #756272 4th Feb 2019 4:06pm
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Joe the Plumber



Member Since: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Midlands
Posts: 906

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HT Fuji White
There is no point having another referendum on our membership of the EU as if there was, all it would do is prove that the government don't take any notice of the result of referendums.

Just to clarify, Europe is a big island off the coast of the United Kingdom, not the other way round.

And remember, Brexit doesn't actually matter as none of us will notice any difference at all, whatever happens on March 29th.
Post #756325 4th Feb 2019 7:43pm
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nitram17



Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2260

No Joe the government will be taking a sensible route for a change recognising the world has changed since the 2016 vote and people like myself now know a lot more so we can make an informed decision about our future ....its what an adult modern democracy does...... are you frightened of more democracy!,,,,,and i have no idea whats going to happen after march 29 and neither do you but i would guess the working man will be worse off its what always happens whatever change occurs........We are never going to agree joe so lets give it some time to sink in and leave it to Mr hindsight to judge as he is never wrong!
Post #756337 4th Feb 2019 8:01pm
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Procta



Member Since: 03 Dec 2016
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 4908

United Kingdom 
Looks like this brexit thing has worried Nissan, they have decided to change their plans on building the new xtrail here. Where I work got the contract for some of the bits and were due to start trialling some tools soon. So that may have gone out the window or maybe a set back. Defender TD5 90 ---/--- Peugeot 306 HDI hatch back

Success is 90% Inspiration and 4 minutes Preparation # you can make it!
Post #756348 4th Feb 2019 8:22pm
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Joe the Plumber



Member Since: 18 Dec 2013
Location: Midlands
Posts: 906

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HT Fuji White
I struggle to understand how democracy will be served by ignoring the result of a democratic referendum. If we had to vote again on everything once we were a few years down the line and knew a bit more, we'd never do anything.

But my opinion on an internet forum is completely unimportant, so I'll stick to a bit of plumbing and enjoying using my van!
Post #756349 4th Feb 2019 8:29pm
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3748

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green
nitram17 wrote:
custom90steve wrote:
Mainly because of do gooders who would rather walk over someone British without a home and help out them over in these other places instead.

If they got their act together in these countries like most do and stopped some of their people bombing other countries and flying planes into skyscrapers then maybe countries like us, the USA, Russia, and many others wouldn't need to intervene.

Also, there is quite a lot of mention on this thread regarding a Customs Union.
The simple fact is, having a customs union is not leaving and is not an option.
Why should we be 'locked' into EU trade, why should we not be free to trade with all countries..

All this anti USA hate, which it is hate is nothing to do with Donald Trump it's to do with trying to sabotage a UK / USA trade deal. Plain and simple.
Obama was liked because of his 'back of the que' talk inspired from Mr Cameron, and that only from this end.
This is inspired by those with financial gain from the EU area only.

Why not broaden horizons, and why not do more in-house.



Why keep running our country down and keep rubbishing it when everyone has to live in it.

There are many on this thread that also own businesses, some of which who won't engage in this thread due to the simple fact they are tired of hearing absolute bias from the few with some temporary losses from EU connections.

There is a worldwide 4x4 market out there also, it isn't and doesn't have to be EU based at all.
If anything, they want to kill it with their ill thought out regs and laws to suit their own financial benefit.
And automotive manufacturers are and have been having far too much say on affairs that do not concern them.

The public are the economy and how they chose to spend and where, not billionaire business.

If anyone is to blame for decisions and or complications it's Mr Cameron for not setting it out correctly in the first place, then he wouldn't when he was going to do a runner anyway.

There has been no change of mind with the situation since the referendum, it was further re-I forced with a general election on top of that again.
Another referendum would be a neverendum and would only muddy the water which suits the EU amicably.
Holding another in 30 - 40 years time much like the time between the common market bite and 2016 on the other hand would be fine.
After all, we never had a choice in a lifetime sone of us.

Adjust and adap, it's what we're good at and the way in which most of us are spending is also changing and adapting.

I see no reason why everyone can't and won't get what they want both with EU markets and ROW.
Then everyone is happy, but that will not come with any customs union nor freeedom of movement for others to hop borders.
Of course they will not make their countries work, they will pull our quality of life down instead.
It is not racist but protection of our great country, that is nothing to be ashamed of at all.

I have no problem with people that want to have contact with EU countries, but I do have a problem with any of those who say it's EU and nothing elee.
That is not acceptable in any way shape or form and is selfish to the highest degree and that's where the left / EU hate towards the USA cones from because their country and economy is on the up as is ours by putting this back to the way wpthey were.
With blocking immigration and building on in-house manufacturing.

Adapt and branch into other markets, you might just find that it's even better and everyone gets what the want.
It's a win win situation, after a short time of adjustment.


edit .....Since the end of the second world war the usa has been a very poor friend to us ....And there is nothing to the special relationship..Obama could not get the colonial past out of his mind and trump would sell us down the river for the price of bleached chicken!I personaly would rather be part of the european block than a little island of the coast of europe who the big players of the next 50 years ,china india russia and usa will ignore!I know its hard for a little country who once ran the greatest empire the world has ever seen..but it is what it is!were minnows and we need to realise that.

Don't know that I agree with all that you say.
I have a LONG memory, and I have read what you say about the U.S.A. Mum & Dad were in England during WW11, and Mum was always critical of Joe Kennedy, and the fact that the U.S. did not enter the War until they were attacked. However, they were providing massive help "behind the scenes". Of course when they did enter the War Winston couldn't wipe the smile off his face, and was said to have said when He heard the news, "We've WON"!!....and it's for sure that we wouldn't have won without the U.S., we wouldn't be on this forum like we are. And I won't forget that, so I'm a BIG fan of the U.S.A. And there is no doubt the world is a changing place, in many ways not good for Western democracy, so I'm glad that the U.S. is "out & about", not saying I'm any political guru, and I do agree that Donald is "different", but I do agree with some of the things He says & does,..at least He's not an "all talk & no action" do-gooder.
Pickles.
Of course, with respect to everyone on this forum, this is only,..IMHO.
Post #756365 4th Feb 2019 9:10pm
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