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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6069

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

I don't think the sump is a revised part so the old and new parts should have the same numbers. Only difference might be if there was any type of date stamp?

Dealers have not dealt with this well - it was a simple query. It's hard to believe that the dealer has given the sump what amounts to an overspray on purpose. if you were going to that effort why wouldn't you do a decent job?

Having said that if the sump came off square then why not reuse it?

Post #425645 22nd May 2015 7:51pm
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lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 590

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

Would the new and old sumps have different part numbers? Has the sump design changed to take the new oil pump?

The definition on Oliver's picture isn't that high but if you zoom right in there looks to be some scratched in markings on the sump next to the top two bolts and nut. Note also that the threaded sections on the two threaded studs look to be free of any waxoil overspray. If the sump had been sprayed as described, wouldn't some overspray be seen on the threaded sections?
I figure the threads are clean because the nuts cleaned any overspray off when they were removed and refitted.

Post #425648 22nd May 2015 8:00pm
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munch90



Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

England 

YOLO110 wrote:
Mmmm. Rolling Eyes

Just an observation...

Your 'wax oiled' sump has had lots of great 'sealant' applied in the joint area. Thats not normal practice or should be necessary with a new sump and new gasket fitted...

By comparison, the photo of the 'shiny black sump' has no sealant visible on the joint... as it should be... Smile


they dont have a gasket , there sealed with sealer as standard , as its applied by hand before fitting so the amount will vary

thats why there replaced because the sealer used is very strong and its possible to damage the sump removing it

Post #425656 22nd May 2015 8:36pm
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YOLO110



Member Since: 14 Feb 2015
Location: Perth
Posts: 1623

Australia 

There you go!

Excellent to have facts on here! Wink YOLO... You Only Live Once...

So... One life, Live it !!

Post #425657 22nd May 2015 8:52pm
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oburrill



Member Since: 09 Aug 2014
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 33

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

Hello, sorry for the late reply, but I've been away.
My original query wasn't just the sump, but the oil pickup and outlet lines as well, because on the day when I asked, it was said that it was just the oil pump, oil and filter. I asked before and after the work had been done, with the same reply. I also asked if there were any problems or anything that was noted during the work, but the answer was no. They could have mentioned that they sprayed some wax oil on the new sump as the old one was, which was the original reason to start questioning.

Before I went away, like 30mins before leaving the house, the dealers Aftersales manager (whom I had not spoken to before) rang me and confirmed with me that all the parts had been replaced, and my question about the sump having waxoil on was that the fella doing the work noticed that my old sump was waxoiled, so he took it to their paint shop so put some on the new sump, which is a bonus. He had spoken to the fella I had spoken to, and importantly to the man doing the job to find out the score, and he explained everything that I needed to hear.

As mentioned, the new sumps are the same as the old ones. The reason for them replacing them is that the old sump is damaged on removing them because the sealant sticks the sump to the bottom of the block. It also makes the job quicker as a clean sump is fitted and it is known to be free of damage etc. They sent me photos of my old sump, which was covered in wax oil, and where it had been damaged when it was removed.
The photo of my new sump shows that there is sealant round the sump and on all the nuts and bolts etc.
For me it was important that the items like the oil pump, pickup and outlet, oil and filter were replaced. When seeing the sump and being told that they weren't replaced is what got me questioning.

They also confirmed (with photo) that the oil pickup and outlet pipes had been changed, as requested along with the oil pump and then oil (Castrol edge 5w30 dpf) and oil filter.

When the dealers do the job, they get a kit with all the parts, as was listed on here. After completing the work the dealers have to then send the parts back to land rover. This is why they could send me photos from my land rover, as they have the job number listed to identify the vehicles and parts.

So basically, it boils down to poor understanding of the job (being told only certain parts were replaced when this is not the case) and poor communication. The people doing the job did the job as requested knowing fully what needed doing and fitting all the parts in line with this Q421 recall, and a bit more in putting some wax oil on the new sump, but this wasn't passed on to me by the people dealing with the customers, only until after and questioning. I trust that people can understand my questioning, but at least I learnt a bit more about this job and that I know that all the parts have been replaced as required.

Many thanks for peoples help and advice.

Post #427094 29th May 2015 2:32pm
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Pickles



Member Since: 26 May 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3479

Australia 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Keswick Green

oburrill, Good post.
Good post for you, and also for your Dealer who obviously has done a good job on your Defender, and a GREAT job in communicating the FACTS to you.
Top Job, Pickles.

Post #427175 29th May 2015 10:04pm
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Harry dog



Member Since: 27 Oct 2016
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 25

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
Oil pump going on a motorway....

Jukathy wrote:
Imagine yourself on the motorway with your little kids. You'll have to get them out of the car and keep calm with cars passing in very small distance. A real nightmare.

Well, as said, I'm hoping that LAND ROVER make things clear with FORD and things return to normal asap.
Neither my family nor I want to be a 2nd class costumer. Especially in safety issues.



To all those who've been posting about the oil pump... mine did give up - without warning - on a motorway, in France, with the whole family on board during our summer break. It was a real nightmare and we feel lucky to be alive.
Re feeling like a 2nd class customer - let's just say, I feel like a 3rd class customer. Let's hope that feeling gets turned around but right now...
I sincerely hope no-one else gets treated this way. A million miles away from my expectation as a long standing 110 driver.
(Have only discovered the forum recently - so was totally oblivious to any oil pump issues at all - until too late)

Post #576285 8th Nov 2016 4:21pm
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gileslang



Member Since: 03 Sep 2019
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 2

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Aintree Green

Harry Dog.. Did you get any help from Land Rover on this? I just purchased a 2012 110 and less than one month in had the same issue. New engine required... not the best news.

Post #790245 3rd Sep 2019 11:38am
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Harry dog



Member Since: 27 Oct 2016
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 25

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

I feel your pain!!

After I had jumped through all the hoops with JLR customer services which included the vehicle going to a main dealer to confirm the diagnosis of the failed oil pump along with tests on the oil filter and oils used plus looking into the service history details. JLR initially offered me 30% of the total engine replacement as good will - the vehicle was just over 4 years old when the oil pump failed. Presented with an estimated cost of circa £10K for the replacement engine I would have still been around £7K out of pocket.

Next stage was a conversation with the legal protection company DAS Law who provided legal cover under my motor policy. The basis of their advice was to make a claim under the sale of goods act. This act basically states that within the first 6 years a product should be fit for purpose - with the original oil pump fitted these vehicles were not fit for purpose in the first place.....The legal costs are free under the policy as long as the lawyer thinks there is more than a 50% chance of winning.


DAS Law to start with went after the Land Rover dealer I had bought the vehicle from at six months old, but that was basically a dead end as that dealership was no longer a Land Rover dealer so strenuously washed there hands of the claim. So, next stop is to put the claim in front of JLR. After several emails from the lawyer JLR eventually upped their initial offer to 50%. On the lawyers advise I rejected this offer and continued with the claim. Finally after a few more months JLR agreed to pay the full cost rather than go to court. This wasn't quite the end because after agreeing to pay, they just couldn't manage to issue a cheque!! So, again on the lawyers advise we then had to get a court ruling for them to pay - as soon as this hit, the legal department of JLR rang me and settled the claim by return.


As your vehicle is more than 6 years old I'm not sure you can go down the route of sale of goods act, but even if it's slightly older its still got to be worth looking into. Don't be under any illusion though this is a painful and very stressful process that you aren't ever in much control of. I went ahead and got the new engine fitted by my trusted local 4x4 garage and reclaimed the cost back from JLR which they didn't like doing that way, they would have preferred the vehicle went back to them for the work to be done. I simply couldn't wait around for over a year to get it sorted.


Not wanting to depress you any further......Another thing that I've recently had first hand experience of was a front nearside Axle Casing weld split. I was fortunate that a noticed a small oil leak under the front nearside wheel, popped down to the 4x4 garage to be told that the weld has actually split and the next stage could have been a complete collapse!! Vehicle stayed with them and I went home in a loan car. Turns out there is a recall for this (still current I think) but my VIN number was outside the recall - yours might not be. There is quite a lot on Defender2 site about this fault so worth you checking it out. Mine had a second hand Discovery Axle Casing fitted cost me about £700 so not a disaster but could have been if it failed whilst driving!!


Hope all that helps.

Harry

Post #790248 3rd Sep 2019 12:33pm
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gileslang



Member Since: 03 Sep 2019
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 2

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Aintree Green

Thanks - very helpful. I am not holding out much hope but will give it a try. Do you recall the name of the contact you dealt with at DAS law?

Also, is it critical I get the vehicle to JLR for tests? I assume so... currently with an independent garage.

Post #790257 3rd Sep 2019 1:40pm
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Harry dog



Member Since: 27 Oct 2016
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 25

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

The lawyer from DAS Law I dealt with was....Anna Horwood 0117 917 1278 ahorwoodclaims@daslaw.co.uk.

As far as getting the vehicle inspected by JLR. In my case until they'd inspected the vehicle and carried out tests on the oil pump, oil filter etc and seen the servicing history (mine was serviced by an independent 4x4 garage since I bought it from a dealer at six months old) they wouldn't make any commitment to assist or otherwise with the repair costs.

It is a very well known fault with a Q service instruction against it so, perhaps the threat of court action or bad publicity might hold some weight?!

Where did you purchase the vehicle from? Have you got any come back with them? Do look into the axle issue as well as that really wouldn't be fun if it failed at speed.

It's three years now since my oil pump failed, it took almost a year to get the vehicle running again properly after that, and having had several other issues (all be it not so serious) go wrong since then......I'm only now just starting to enjoy the Landy again. I have spent some money over the last couple of years on some quality upgrades to original vehicle which has certainly helped the enjoyment and until another vehicle comes along that can do what this one does and looks as good I'll stick with it. As my independent 4x4 garage says "I should treat as a restoration project!!!"

Good luck and keep me posted how you get on with JLR - you can always PM me if easier than posting.

Harry

Post #790285 3rd Sep 2019 4:18pm
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