I don't think the sump is a revised part so the old and new parts should have the same numbers. Only difference might be if there was any type of date stamp?

Dealers have not dealt with this well - it was a simple query. It's hard to believe that the dealer has given the sump what amounts to an overspray on purpose. if you were going to that effort why wouldn't you do a decent job?

Having said that if the sump came off square then why not reuse it?

Would the new and old sumps have different part numbers? Has the sump design changed to take the new oil pump?

The definition on Oliver's picture isn't that high but if you zoom right in there looks to be some scratched in markings on the sump next to the top two bolts and nut. Note also that the threaded sections on the two threaded studs look to be free of any waxoil overspray. If the sump had been sprayed as described, wouldn't some overspray be seen on the threaded sections?
I figure the threads are clean because the nuts cleaned any overspray off when they were removed and refitted.

YOLO110 wrote:

Mmmm.

Just an observation...

Your 'wax oiled' sump has had lots of great 'sealant' applied in the joint area. Thats not normal practice or should be necessary with a new sump and new gasket fitted...

By comparison, the photo of the 'shiny black sump' has no sealant visible on the joint... as it should be...

There you go!

Excellent to have facts on here!  YOLO... You Only Live Once...

So... One life, Live it !!

Hello, sorry for the late reply, but I've been away.
My original query wasn't just the sump, but the oil pickup and outlet lines as well, because on the day when I asked, it was said that it was just the oil pump, oil and filter. I asked before and after the work had been done, with the same reply. I also asked if there were any problems or anything that was noted during the work, but the answer was no. They could have mentioned that they sprayed some wax oil on the new sump as the old one was, which was the original reason to start questioning.

Before I went away, like 30mins before leaving the house, the dealers Aftersales manager (whom I had not spoken to before) rang me and confirmed with me that all the parts had been replaced, and my question about the sump having waxoil on was that the fella doing the work noticed that my old sump was waxoiled, so he took it to their paint shop so put some on the new sump, which is a bonus. He had spoken to the fella I had spoken to, and importantly to the man doing the job to find out the score, and he explained everything that I needed to hear.

As mentioned, the new sumps are the same as the old ones. The reason for them replacing them is that the old sump is damaged on removing them because the sealant sticks the sump to the bottom of the block. It also makes the job quicker as a clean sump is fitted and it is known to be free of damage etc. They sent me photos of my old sump, which was covered in wax oil, and where it had been damaged when it was removed.
The photo of my new sump shows that there is sealant round the sump and on all the nuts and bolts etc.
For me it was important that the items like the oil pump, pickup and outlet, oil and filter were replaced. When seeing the sump and being told that they weren't replaced is what got me questioning.

They also confirmed (with photo) that the oil pickup and outlet pipes had been changed, as requested along with the oil pump and then oil (Castrol edge 5w30 dpf) and oil filter.

When the dealers do the job, they get a kit with all the parts, as was listed on here. After completing the work the dealers have to then send the parts back to land rover. This is why they could send me photos from my land rover, as they have the job number listed to identify the vehicles and parts.

So basically, it boils down to poor understanding of the job (being told only certain parts were replaced when this is not the case) and poor communication. The people doing the job did the job as requested knowing fully what needed doing and fitting all the parts in line with this Q421 recall, and a bit more in putting some wax oil on the new sump, but this wasn't passed on to me by the people dealing with the customers, only until after and questioning. I trust that people can understand my questioning, but at least I learnt a bit more about this job and that I know that all the parts have been replaced as required.

Many thanks for peoples help and advice.

oburrill, Good post.
Good post for you, and also for your Dealer who obviously has done a good job on your Defender, and a GREAT job in communicating the FACTS to you.
Top Job, Pickles.

Jukathy wrote:

Imagine yourself on the motorway with your little kids. You'll have to get them out of the car and keep calm with cars passing in very small distance. A real nightmare.

Well, as said, I'm hoping that LAND ROVER make things clear with FORD and things return to normal asap.
Neither my family nor I want to be a 2nd class costumer. Especially in safety issues.

Harry Dog.. Did you get any help from Land Rover on this? I just purchased a 2012 110 and less than one month in had the same issue. New engine required... not the best news.

I feel your pain!!

After I had jumped through all the hoops with JLR customer services which included the vehicle going to a main dealer to confirm the diagnosis of the failed oil pump along with tests on the oil filter and oils used plus looking into the service history details. JLR initially offered me 30% of the total engine replacement as good will - the vehicle was just over 4 years old when the oil pump failed. Presented with an estimated cost of circa £10K for the replacement engine I would have still been around £7K out of pocket.

Next stage was a conversation with the legal protection company DAS Law who provided legal cover under my motor policy. The basis of their advice was to make a claim under the sale of goods act. This act basically states that within the first 6 years a product should be fit for purpose - with the original oil pump fitted these vehicles were not fit for purpose in the first place.....The legal costs are free under the policy as long as the lawyer thinks there is more than a 50% chance of winning.


DAS Law to start with went after the Land Rover dealer I had bought the vehicle from at six months old, but that was basically a dead end as that dealership was no longer a Land Rover dealer so strenuously washed there hands of the claim. So, next stop is to put the claim in front of JLR. After several emails from the lawyer JLR eventually upped their initial offer to 50%. On the lawyers advise I rejected this offer and continued with the claim. Finally after a few more months JLR agreed to pay the full cost rather than go to court. This wasn't quite the end because after agreeing to pay, they just couldn't manage to issue a cheque!! So, again on the lawyers advise we then had to get a court ruling for them to pay - as soon as this hit, the legal department of JLR rang me and settled the claim by return.


As your vehicle is more than 6 years old I'm not sure you can go down the route of sale of goods act, but even if it's slightly older its still got to be worth looking into. Don't be under any illusion though this is a painful and very stressful process that you aren't ever in much control of. I went ahead and got the new engine fitted by my trusted local 4x4 garage and reclaimed the cost back from JLR which they didn't like doing that way, they would have preferred the vehicle went back to them for the work to be done. I simply couldn't wait around for over a year to get it sorted.


Not wanting to depress you any further......Another thing that I've recently had first hand experience of was a front nearside Axle Casing weld split. I was fortunate that a noticed a small oil leak under the front nearside wheel, popped down to the 4x4 garage to be told that the weld has actually split and the next stage could have been a complete collapse!! Vehicle stayed with them and I went home in a loan car. Turns out there is a recall for this (still current I think) but my VIN number was outside the recall - yours might not be. There is quite a lot on Defender2 site about this fault so worth you checking it out. Mine had a second hand Discovery Axle Casing fitted cost me about £700 so not a disaster but could have been if it failed whilst driving!!


Hope all that helps.

Harry

Thanks - very helpful. I am not holding out much hope but will give it a try. Do you recall the name of the contact you dealt with at DAS law?

Also, is it critical I get the vehicle to JLR for tests? I assume so... currently with an independent garage.

The lawyer from DAS Law I dealt with was....Anna Horwood 0117 917 1278 ahorwoodclaims@daslaw.co.uk.

As far as getting the vehicle inspected by JLR. In my case until they'd inspected the vehicle and carried out tests on the oil pump, oil filter etc and seen the servicing history (mine was serviced by an independent 4x4 garage since I bought it from a dealer at six months old) they wouldn't make any commitment to assist or otherwise with the repair costs.

It is a very well known fault with a Q service instruction against it so, perhaps the threat of court action or bad publicity might hold some weight?!

Where did you purchase the vehicle from? Have you got any come back with them? Do look into the axle issue as well as that really wouldn't be fun if it failed at speed.

It's three years now since my oil pump failed, it took almost a year to get the vehicle running again properly after that, and having had several other issues (all be it not so serious) go wrong since then......I'm only now just starting to enjoy the Landy again. I have spent some money over the last couple of years on some quality upgrades to original vehicle which has certainly helped the enjoyment and until another vehicle comes along that can do what this one does and looks as good I'll stick with it. As my independent 4x4 garage says "I should treat as a restoration project!!!"

Good luck and keep me posted how you get on with JLR - you can always PM me if easier than posting.

Harry

I'm very new to this site, this morning in fact. My 2012 130 has just suffered total engine failure due, according to my local Land Rover specialist, to the failure of the oil pump. The vehicle was bought new from a main dealer via the local specialist, who has serviced it ever since, in accordance with the service schedule. The truck has done 61000 miles. It's never been recalled, although the main dealer had it in back in 2015 for some warranty work. Should they have dealt with the oil pump issue then, assuming it was after the issue of Q421? The likely cost of repair means I will probably have to sell the truck as I am now retired. With the truck eight years old, I doubt if I have any legal comeback but I am feeling pretty let-down, but I'm not sure by who.

So sorry to hear about your situation.

Most of the advice I can give is already on the site for you to read back through. For what it's worth I don't think legally you could now go down the sale of goods act as it's been over 6 years since you bought the vehicle, but I might be worth raising the issue with JLR customer services..... why wasn't the Q recall carried out when your vehicle went into the main dealer for other warranty repairs?! My understanding of the Q recalls were that they were only service instructions for the main dealer to carry out when you presented your vehicle for service and were never intended (nor indeed did JLR have a legal requirement) to be sent out to customers as a full recall. But all that said you'd think they would have flagged that one up when your vehicle was at the main dealer in 2015.

Such a shame JLR did't fund the original Q recall properly and just change all the oil pumps from that batch of Defenders. I love the car but not a huge fan of JLR!!!

Harry

Harry dog wrote:

...
Another thing that I've recently had first hand experience of was a front nearside Axle Casing weld split. ... Turns out there is a recall for this (still current I think) but my VIN number was outside the recall - yours might not be. There is quite a lot on Defender2 site about this fault so worth you checking it out. ...

It is interesting and disturbing to note that the majority of the incidences of this dangerous defect which have been reported on this forum have occurred to vehicles which were outside the range of VINs JLR thinks is susceptible and yet which were running on original front axles. This has always led me to believe that JLR was extremely frugal in its assessment of affected VINs. There have also been instances of it happening to 90s, as opposed to just the 110 and 130 vehicles JLR reckons are affected.

I find it almost unbelievable that a fault that causes your front hub to become detached from the axle can be treated in such a cavalier way by Landrover, and I am surprised and saddened that the regulatory bodies allow it either. I forget the exact form of words Landrover used for this fault, but it was along the lines of "there may be a reduction in control" when the front wheel breaks off.

Utterly dismal for a maker of so-called "premium brands".

Fmbruce wrote:

I'm very new to this site, this morning in fact. My 2012 130 has just suffered total engine failure due, according to my local Land Rover specialist, to the failure of the oil pump. The vehicle was bought new from a main dealer via the local specialist, who has serviced it ever since, in accordance with the service schedule. The truck has done 61000 miles. It's never been recalled, although the main dealer had it in back in 2015 for some warranty work. Should they have dealt with the oil pump issue then, assuming it was after the issue of Q421? The likely cost of repair means I will probably have to sell the truck as I am now retired. With the truck eight years old, I doubt if I have any legal comeback but I am feeling pretty let-down, but I'm not sure by who.