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shropshiredefender



Member Since: 05 Jun 2017
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 501

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

blackwolf wrote:

* Given that both the MT82 gearbox and the LT230 transfer box have been in production for a long time, apparently without any dimensional issues, it does seem likely to me that it is the adaptor housing which is the major part of the problem. it would be very interesting to compare the dimensions of one from a shaft-eating vehicle and one from a non-shaft-eater.


I'm not sure if this helps the alignment theory or not - I had an Ashcroft output shaft fitted around 10k miles ago, after 70k+ miles the original was worn but had life left in it.


Click image to enlarge


I've just had an Ashcroft re-con transfer box fitted.
Both the original and re-con transfer boxes slid easily into place.
To my mind this indicates good alignment = over 70k output shaft life, tending to substantiate Blackwolf's alignment theory, that is to say that on mine MT83, LT230 and adapter housing are all within tolerance.


Last edited by shropshiredefender on 11th Jan 2019 4:19pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #750541 11th Jan 2019 3:08pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 9581

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Your 70k shaft is substantially more worn than my bog-standard original shaft was at 150k. This does to my mind tend to suggest the alignment theory since shafts on your vehicle appear to wear faster than shafts on mine.

Post #750547 11th Jan 2019 4:05pm
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shropshiredefender



Member Since: 05 Jun 2017
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 501

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

Yes - that's the worn 70k+ shaft I thought that was a good life! Compared to your experience it's not Shocked

I expect/hope that the lubricated Ashcroft shaft will be much better Cool

Post #750549 11th Jan 2019 4:06pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 9581

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Well, to keep it in perspective, you have had ten times the mileage that some people get!

Post #750560 11th Jan 2019 5:13pm
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DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 498

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

" that is to say that on mine MT83, LT230 and adapter housing are all within tolerance."

They may well be, all of the early failure 'boxes, adapters and shafts may also be with in the manufacturing tolerance.
Wether those tolerances were correctly specified to make a product that has an acceptable life under all possible variations is another matter.
There are 2 possibilities,
1) the system was designed with too much variation to achieve acceptable alignment and product life.
2) the quality control procedures failed to maintain the assembly with in its designed limits, if it was correctly specified.

So the problem is either a design failure or a manufacturing failure. Landrover's fault and they didn't fix it.
Pot luck as to wether you get a good one or a bad one is not good enough!

Post #750573 11th Jan 2019 6:35pm
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ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 205

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

This is mine at 55k... Splines are worn (although strangely some are not???) but out of the vehicle the coupling is surprisingly tight by hand considering the clunking!

It was changed at my request as I had the clutch done, so figured I'd do it whilst the box was out. Full write up on that coming soon...


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 Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #750619 11th Jan 2019 9:23pm
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 78

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

shropshiredefender wrote:
I'm not sure if this helps the alignment theory or not - I had an Ashcroft output shaft fitted around 10k miles ago, after 70k+ miles the original was worn but had life left in it.



Click image to enlarge


Not too much live left in that one. It looks like my shaft that failed in the Alpes mountains.

I don't believe the misalignement theory. Misalignement causes wear but it can be controlled so easily in the production line. And everybody can proof it. Why should Land Rover have taken such a big risk in a period of 10 years?

I think it's the corrosion products being harder than steel. The corrosion products are the sand in the joint and they grind it down.
The rise of temperature changes / load changes / periods of hard use accelerates the process.

In the Alpes I stranded at the workshop of a technician for harvest machines. Each and every harvest machines has the same kind of joint in it (and it must be lubricated). If it falls dry it will wear and fail.

Post #750679 12th Jan 2019 11:01am
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Roy5695



Member Since: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 784

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Indus Silver

This was mine after 38k miles.

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 2011 Defender DCPU 2.2 - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic30623.html

Instagram - @rljprice

Roy

Post #750681 12th Jan 2019 11:15am
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Tom The Locksmith



Member Since: 11 Sep 2014
Location: Northampton
Posts: 14

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Java Black
Ashcroft MT82 Output Shaft

My original Landrover output shaft went at about 13k miles, new one was fitted by Landrover under warranty but that one failed about 3 weeks ago at 29k miles which was lucky i was outside the house when it went.

I ordered the new replacement output shaft from Ashcroft for i think was £295+vat & delivery, downloaded the instructions off the internet and waited for the it to be delivered.

The very next day the shaft was delivered to me, bearing in mind i had only ordered it at 2.30pm the day before, so thumbs up for that level of service.

Waited 2 weeks for my friend who runs a garage for sick 4x4's to have the time to get my defender 110 but once it was there he had the part swapped out in a few hours.

I asked my friend did he have any troubles with the fitting and he said it was straight forward to do.

With regards to the performance of the output shaft itself, its solved a few issues that i didn't know were related.

I have had an annoying judder while under acceleration, though maybe it was injectors or fuel related even after it's just had a service but turns out it was the output shaft as the hesitation has now disappeared with smooth strong acceleration.

Second issue i had was an annoying rattle at tick over, i have been all over the vehicle replacing worn parts to only have the vibration vanish once the new Ashcroft output shaft was fitted.

Well worth the money in my opinion & if it last longer than 26k miles I'm quids in.

Post #761338 1st Mar 2019 12:33pm
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West England
Posts: 16918

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

It looks to me like nearly everyone's output shaft is dry too.

I used to get before my most recent clutch change a bit of a grinding at low speeds too, I thought it may be the rear duff area but once the clutch was done it was gone.

On the good advice of Blackwolf on here I asked them to lube the output shaft too which it was out.
They said the flywheel was still good, so that was a good thing and the output shaft was okay too. This was & 42k approx.

They lubed it all and its all been good, I would imagine if this wasn't done abd the clutch I had would have gone on the output shaft would have instead.
I think they said as per usual it was very dry.

Seems to me like a lot if things weren't lubricated from manufacturer!
Shocked Made In GB. 🇬🇧

Watts ÷ Volts = Amps.
Amps X Volts = Watts

Post #761380 1st Mar 2019 3:15pm
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R1200GS



Member Since: 12 Jul 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 216

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Keswick Green

Interesting points regarding lubrication raised above. My 2016 model had the blue grease drip under the gearbox
at new, so land rover did seem to take note of this issue towards the end of the production run.

I have only done about 16k miles since then but time will tell if my output shaft lasts or not. If (when) it fails then
its an Ashcroft unit for me.

Post #761384 1st Mar 2019 3:46pm
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strang



Member Since: 16 May 2012
Location: Happy Valley
Posts: 1034

United Kingdom 2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

I have just had an Ashcroft output shaft fitted. When my Defender was in for a service last year it was noted that there were rust signs coming from the transfer case - and indication of potential failure. So, as I am planning a trip to Morocco later this year, I decided to take the precautionary option and have it, and the clutch replaced. Once removed, the old shaft was clearly bone dry and rusting nicely. Euro-Leafing to infinity and beyond.....

Post #761686 3rd Mar 2019 12:51pm
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Howard



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 10

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 PU Alpine White

The shaft failed and I lost drive at 12,000 miles on my 2012 truck . I was in France at the time on holiday.

Post #761715 3rd Mar 2019 5:25pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 1909

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

Does anyone knows where is the geometry gone wrong? I have read Dave´s observations but I do not think they are conclusive. Maybe they are but I do not get it. Gearbox end, extension casing or T box? Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

Post #768897 16th Apr 2019 10:44pm
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mobilesawmiller



Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Co,Tyrone
Posts: 52

United Kingdom 

Recently had the clutch replaced on my 2007 Tdci at about 88,000 miles. My local Independent advised having a look at the output shaft while they were at it. Turned out it was nearly ready to through in the towel so replaced it with the Ashcroft part. The drive is completely transformed. Almost all of the "slap" in the transmission has been removed and driving is a much more pleasurable experience. Just prior to having this work done I had the rear drive flanges replaced which also contributed to overall driveability.

Post #768908 17th Apr 2019 7:03am
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