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Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output shaft - updated genuine or Ashcroft?
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
In 2011 my local friendly main dealer quoted me for the supply and fitting of a new clutch, the replacement of the front diff pinion oil seal, and the replacement of the gasket on the "pto hole" on the transfer box. The price quoted for all of this was just lover £2,400 !! Yes, really, two thousand four hundred pounds!

If you talke off £400 for the VAT, £300 for parts (which was about what they cost at the time), that leaves £1700 for labour, which was about 20 man-hours at the dealer rates at the time. Needless to say, they didn't get the job.

I believe that the top-secret official repair times manual gives approx 4 man-hours as the labour required for a Puma clutch change, which is also about what I would estimate for a competent person based on the number of times I have done the job. It really isn't a huge job with the right facilities.

If your £500 included the parts I'd say it was a bargain (or a cowboy). If it didn't include the parts I'd say it is not unreasonable for an indy, and cheap for a main dealer.

I would expect an output shaft change to add perhaps an hour to the time since it means splitting the transfer box from the gearbox (which requires draining the transfer box), removing the output extension housing, and removing the shaft, and removing the drive member from the back of the gearbox. I am surprised that you have been told that there is no difference in the price for doing this, and would be inclined to query why not. You are either being overcharged for the clutch, or undercharged for the shaft!
Post #794785 23rd Sep 2019 9:45pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Bluest wrote:
I would take view when you can see your current one. If it looks ok, I’d replace with another standard one, which are relatively cheaper. If it looks badly worn, go for an Ashcroft. Either way, unless there were absolutely no signs of wear, I wouldn’t put the old one back. Just my opinion on what I would do.


If it looks ok and is not worn, I suggest that there is no point in replacing it. In fact, since we don't know why the things fail (although the most likely underlying cause is an alignment issue) it is possible that some shafts are actually defective, in which case you may be better off not replacing one which you know has been ok for 100k.

Whatever you do, if you fit the old one or a new standard one, grease it thoroughly (preferably with molybdenum disulphide grease) before putting it all back together. If an Ashcroft one, lubricate it with gearbox oil.
Post #794786 23rd Sep 2019 9:50pm
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deaallen



Member Since: 15 Feb 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 262

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black
blackwolf wrote:
In 2011 my local friendly main dealer quoted me for the supply and fitting of a new clutch, the replacement of the front diff pinion oil seal, and the replacement of the gasket on the "pto hole" on the transfer box. The price quoted for all of this was just lover £2,400 !! Yes, really, two thousand four hundred pounds!

If you talke off £400 for the VAT, £300 for parts (which was about what they cost at the time), that leaves £1700 for labour, which was about 20 man-hours at the dealer rates at the time. Needless to say, they didn't get the job.

I believe that the top-secret official repair times manual gives approx 4 man-hours as the labour required for a Puma clutch change, which is also about what I would estimate for a competent person based on the number of times I have done the job. It really isn't a huge job with the right facilities.

If your £500 included the parts I'd say it was a bargain (or a cowboy). If it didn't include the parts I'd say it is not unreasonable for an indy, and cheap for a main dealer.

I would expect an output shaft change to add perhaps an hour to the time since it means splitting the transfer box from the gearbox (which requires draining the transfer box), removing the output extension housing, and removing the shaft, and removing the drive member from the back of the gearbox. I am surprised that you have been told that there is no difference in the price for doing this, and would be inclined to query why not. You are either being overcharged for the clutch, or undercharged for the shaft!


That wasn't including parts! I've been told to expect anywhere between £300 - £500, Alive quoted for between 3-5 hours @£60ph inc Vat but they are quite far from me Sad
Post #794803 24th Sep 2019 6:46am
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 421

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Hi folks, any known issues with the Ashcroft shaft so far? I'm on Ashcroft for 2 years / 20000 km and no issues so far Thumbs Up
Post #795305 26th Sep 2019 9:49pm
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EastFreo



Member Since: 24 May 2014
Location: Perth
Posts: 103

Australia 
I am bloody torn on this subject. I am at 148,000km and have had no issues. Car is a 2014 110 and does a combination of daily drive into city and then weekend drives to our farm (where it gets a good work out in muddy fields etc).

Probably come down to when I next take the family for a long holiday drive.

I don’t mind breaking down on my own but I would never hear the end of it if it happened on a holiday!

I think I will go the Ashcroft option.
Post #857055 20th Sep 2020 1:14pm
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Notyalc



Member Since: 27 Jul 2018
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 139

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
But now you have the LOF option too.

Guaranteed for life...
Post #857063 20th Sep 2020 2:16pm
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 421

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Julie wrote:
Hi folks, any known issues with the Ashcroft shaft so far? I'm on Ashcroft for 2 years / 20000 km and no issues so far Thumbs Up


Hi - 3 yrs / 35 000 km - no issues Thumbs Up
Post #857088 20th Sep 2020 4:49pm
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Maddover



Member Since: 04 Sep 2015
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 1

New Zealand 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Fuji White
Took vehicle in for service before a trip way for Xmas and got the dreaded comment in the service report of the telltale rust marks on the inspection hole, which would also explain the transmission clunk. Have already has one output shaft fail in the middle of a roundabout and not keen to have anther holiday ruined this year - COVID did the first one thanks, so decided to bit the bullet and replace the output shaft before total failure. The Ashcroft unit seemed the best option given the LR upgrade seems to have started to fail after 35,000km. The Ashcroft unit is being fitted tomorrow so will be interested to see how it performs.
Post #871738 7th Dec 2020 7:03am
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fantomas



Member Since: 10 May 2020
Location: nord
Posts: 1

France 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Havana
just installed the mt82 aschroft kit on my defender 90 the transformation is radical. with that, I also replaced the clutch with a reinforced loft clutches
since then i don't know why i have vibrations when the engine is around 1400 rpm and i don't know where it might be from with these changes. I also replaced the front and rear driveshafts but it's the same
does anyone have an idea on the question
Post #876490 5th Jan 2021 8:37pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Maddover wrote:
... given the LR upgrade seems to have started to fail after 35,000km. ...


Can I ask what you mean by the "LR upgrade"? As far as I know the genuine part has never changed, all that changed was the addition of a meagre smear of some peculiar lubricant.
Post #876566 6th Jan 2021 9:08am
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 421

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Upgraded may indicate that JLR put some grease Wink

What they did not do on my MY2012 Evil or Very Mad

And they refused any compensation despite the modified (upgraded) installation procedure. Their online commercials didn't even understand that spliced joints have to be greased.

One could think they're not car manufacturers but housewifes Rolling with laughter
Post #878967 16th Jan 2021 8:31pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
^^^ I think that might upset a few housewives!
Post #878992 16th Jan 2021 9:51pm
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keith



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 2152

Scotland 
Here we go AGAIN. 5th shaft just gone, awaiting recovery, 110,000 miles. A9.
Post #935994 2nd Jan 2022 1:00pm
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6260

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
really so sorry to hear this Keith.
I really do feel your pain.

I so wish there was a sensible solution out there.

do me a small favour. when convenient would you check from underneath that the transfer box is fully engaged in 'unlock' position. from my experience the just because the transfer light isn't illuminated and the transfer box lever is pushed as far as it can go this does not guarantee the tab on the transfer box is fully in the 'unlock' position. That being the case, from my experience you can expect all sorts of minor problems including premature wear - not least of the transfer shaft.

I hope it all gets resolved as painlessly as possible - relatively speaking.

good luck with the mechanical and psychological results.


how does something so apparently straight forward cause so much of a problem?
and hence my query of trying to loose the adapter shaft all together by fitting a different gearbox - a solution that I've not yet found a solution to Confused
Post #936002 2nd Jan 2022 1:50pm
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keith



Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 2152

Scotland 
Aaaaargh No you don’t Cat. 5 times cmon man. Just as well I bleed green and got deep pockets. That’ll be another £1500. Just arrived in Mcduies Aviemore. Ha ! In a Tesla.


Click image to enlarge
Post #936026 2nd Jan 2022 4:47pm
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