 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Help Please...stalling / Fuel Rail Pressure dropping to 0 |
 
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664   
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So...In the spirit of DEF2, here's my update.
I was quite concerned about the torque being applied to the Rail. When I got round to it this morning, I started off collecting the tools together I expected to need a large breaker bar, deep 19mm socket, and also thought I may "counter" the force with a stilson on the fuel rail. However I hadn't really thought this through, because there is not enough room (without removing or tying the bonnet back) to get a breaker bar (or a sizeable torque wrench) in there. So, I removed the fuel pipe, pinged off the Spigot, and got my 19mm ring spanner on the PRV. With a fairly good pull, it broke loose! (that made all these gym memberships worthwhile  ) . Maybe the regular application of ACF helped...
I fished-out the old copper washer with a bit of bent wire. A bit of thread seal on the new PRV before installing, and a new copper washer (the Denso item does not come with a new copper washer). After that a fairly straightforward job, less than an hour. I was lucky the old PRV came off so easily. I did have to bleed the fuel system. I had hoped it would start without, but I needed to do a bleed (as if changing the fuel filter) Pics to show the things used (note part number of Denso PRV):  Click image to enlarge I did a small test drive (about 5 miles) and did not get a stall/power loss. I did notice the small hesitation when backing off the throttle and putting the power back on had disappeared. It really needs to go on a longer run to be sure it's fully resolved. A HUGE thank-you to blackwolf and dorsetsmith for taking the time to add guidance - much appreciated as always  
My car port now stinks of diesel, I hope it's not leaking (it all looks dry, but I spilt a bit when doing the job) Riverama - let us know how you get on Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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7th Oct 2021 10:34am |
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| Rivarama Member Since: 28 Aug 2021 Location: London Posts: 155 
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Well done mate!!
I have booked the car for my Indy to do the swap… but now I am thinking I might just save myself £100 and do it myself  |
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7th Oct 2021 8:33pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Cheers Riverama
Worth giving it a go if you have the tools and parts. If you can't get the PRV out, then you could pop it back together in 5 mins and take it to the Indie. Glad I tried. I was nervous, but lucky I guess
Let us know Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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7th Oct 2021 10:18pm |
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| Rivarama Member Since: 28 Aug 2021 Location: London Posts: 155
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I just don’t want to snap that rail, which will then require my car to be towed out to the Indy hahaha
Also, just noticed I don’t have a copper washer (FFS!!) Not sure whether using the old one is smart given the amount of pressure it’s taken. |
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7th Oct 2021 10:20pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Riverama
I am pretty sure it was a 14mm copper washer. You could either: 1. buy a kit like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324331150774?ha...Swc2dfhGC5 2. PM me your home address in the next hour (I'm heading to Wales soon for the weekend), and I'll post a 14mm copper washer to you I would definitely use a new one. You could "anneal" the original but mine was quite distorted (probably the high torque involved) &t=3s Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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8th Oct 2021 8:10am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Looks like I may be back to square one...sadly!
Changed the PRV. After a longer drive, once the engine was warm, I put my foot flat down. The Defender did indeed accelerate well, but it was accompanied by a smell of diesel. The seal had broken on the PRV. (same place as Riverama's) On closer inspection, it appears the copper washer is 10x16x1mm (I had used a 12x16x1mm). Correct washers ordered. However I have also had one of the stalling issues back  It seems the common-rail-rasp of the engine is not quite normal either. I think I will change the VCV again. Running out of ideas. Still no MIL light, so no faults to read. Temperature sensor is normal
I bled the fuel lines again. Checked the loom again. So far: VCV changed PRV and Sensor changed MAP cleaned (new one still not arrived!) MAF replaced It was serviced after the stalling/power loss started, so new air filter and new fuel filter (the service did not change the symptoms) Also I don't think it's the ignition switch or main relay because the speedo keeps reading (and fuel/temp gauges) when the power cuts... Plenty of fuel, and a fairly recent battery. It sure does feel like air in the fuel pipes, but it's been bled 3 times now. So I think (unless anyone can suggest anything): 1. another VCV first, and if that doesn't fix, then 2. Clean the tank 3. the crank position sensor (less likely but I am clutching at straws) 4. Fuel temperature sensor on pump? Question: if I am getting air in the fuel pipes, any likely areas to check (I'm going to have a look next to the fuel filter this afternoon) ? Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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12th Oct 2021 11:06am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Update
Cautiously optimistic this is OK now. Having replaced loads of parts and spent several hours trying to fix this, it seems it was... the VCV The VCV was replaced early in my fault chasing. It did have an effect, but I was still having issues (sometimes taking 80 miles to show up!). MAP cleaned, new MAF, and both the Fuel Rail Sensor and PRV changed... Anyway, this morning put another new VCV in. This one from PF Jones, and looked slightly different. On starting it was rough at first, but I used the IID tool to do the re-learn, and it just got better and better! I did get this error, which I assume was because I had disconnected things, I cleared the code and it has not come back: Click image to enlarge Hoping this error is not related...? I have driven ~15 miles with the IID tool monitoring the Fuel rail pressure, and it never dropped as it was doing before. If there's any other symptoms, it looks like I will have to order LR030043 as the throttle assy, in the meantime, I will clean the contacts just in case (i have a Naka cruise control, and that is where the cruise connects to the accelerator) Cautiously optimistic!  Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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21st Oct 2021 12:02pm |
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| dannyragsdale Member Since: 07 Oct 2022 Location: Eastern Highlands, PNG Posts: 40  
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So was this the final remedy? Any other issues since then? I am having similar issues and curious if this really fixed it for good. Thanks!
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7th Oct 2022 9:09pm |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2267  
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what are the reasons for triggering the PRV? High pressure sure, but?
And the short life of the VCV? Using the same diesel fuel I never had a problem with the above in a Toyota. Puma 110" SW ............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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8th Oct 2022 1:19am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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As the OP. Sorry I changed threads after this, and had continued "issues".
This was the later thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic82418.html I don't really know what the end fix was. Over the course of a year I had a number of related but different issues. * It started off losing power after the Covid lay-up. It could lose power and stall, sometimes even when driving normally (scary on the motorway especially once with a trailer in a contraflow!!) After changing several things (MAF, MAP, VCV, EGR etc) the main problem I was experiencing was poor starting when HOT. I also suspected fuel (as it had barely used one tank during lockdown), so I dosed with biocide. During the last year I've used many tanks of fuel having driven almost 5000 miles in the Defender. As such I think my fuel supply is good. It's well-maintained. I change the fuel and air filters (only using OEM or Mahle) every second year (I only average 4-5k miles par annum in the Defender preferring to travel by motorcycle where possible) After all of this, I replaced the Fuel Rail PRV and Pressure sensor AGAIN. The symptoms did not change. Clutching at straws I put the THIRD replacement VCV in (at 51k miles it was still original VCV, the first one I bought did look a bit shorter than the others) changed the symptoms. The second replacement seemed (in hindsight) to create lovely smooth running, but had this "hot start problem". The final one seemed to fix it all (so far). Each time I did the relearn with my GAP IID tool. I never had MIL light diags of any use at all. In my thoughts (I am no expert) - this whole area of the 2.4 Puma is weak. These things (VCV, MAP, MAF EGR etc) seem to need to work in conjunction with each other, and any error (MIL) codes are spurious at best. As such if you have "fuelling problems" then it's a case of methodically changing these items hoping to eradicate the problem (difficult if 2 of the VCV's are not quite right even tho they are new Denso items). Blackwolf frequently seems to point at the VCV, and I do think he's right in that this can be the achilles heel of the orchestration. The VCV also seems very fragile! Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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9th Oct 2022 6:14am |
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| dannyragsdale Member Since: 07 Oct 2022 Location: Eastern Highlands, PNG Posts: 40
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Thanks! That gives me a lot to work with.
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9th Oct 2022 10:03am |
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