 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Intermittent Engine Stalling on Startup |
 
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664   
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Chaps - Happy Sunday to you!
Once again I'm struggling a bit, and thought I would ask my learned friends about this problem... My Defender has had a few sporadic issues since leaving it standing for a few months during lockdown (I had it in a lock-up in Aviemore, whereas I live in Lancashire/Cumbria) so didn't manage to retrieve it (I wasn't driving anywhere!). I charged the battery and it ran but with a few issues... I originally had a few stalling/cutting out problems (even whilst driving, losing power), and done all the usual suspects, fuel cleaner (biocide), cleaned and subsequently replaced MAP, MAF, VCV (twice) fuel filter, air filter, fuel rail pressure sender, and fuel rail PRV. I diagnosed the major problem/culprit as my fuel rail pressure dropping to zero (no longer the issue). I've done about 1500 miles in the last 6 months, and still having one residual problem. Occasionally when starting up, the revs drop, and it stalls. After a few attempts it always runs. Once running it's absolutely spot-on, smooth, powerful, usual fuel consumption... it seems worse when doing a warm start (like yesterday, having driven 20 miles, including one short motorway spell, I stopped for diesel and it took 4 attempts to re-start, then ran perfectly all the way after) Twice I did manage catch this error message on my IID tool a few weeks ago (I've been away the last 6 weeks, so the Defender has not been started for 2 months until yesterday, but I did charge the battery overnight):  Click image to enlarge Only those times did it put the MIL light on...Yesterday no MIL light... I've also noticed the EGR chukka noise is more subdued (quieter) than usual. I'm leaning towards: 1. checking (again) all connectors and wiring around the throttle wiring (I do have a Naka Cruise Control, but I have disconnected this to help isolate the issue) 2. Replace either the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) assembly, or the EGR (or both if the first one does not fix the issue!) Both the EGR and TPS are original (53k miles, 11 years old) Just asking for opinions please? Am i heading in the right direction do you think? I'll clean the connections today, faff with the IID tool, and visually check wiring, after than I guess I'll have to choose either the Throttle Assy or the EGR as the next (costly) change... Any pointers on a rainy Sunday please??? Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) Last edited by MartinK on 20th Feb 2022 7:16pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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20th Feb 2022 9:21am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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I've managed to make a video...
https://vimeo.com/user167361786/review/679693605/9f61068539 Sadly my attempts have not put the MIL light on so no new diagnostics... I checked the connections as far as I can, and no apparent issues. Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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20th Feb 2022 3:09pm |
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| Landymatt Member Since: 31 Dec 2018 Location: York Posts: 191
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Error codes aside, your symptoms sound like mine.
Changing the EGR valve (£420 at local indie including parts labour and VAT) solved all my problems. More details of my specific situation on the first and last post here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic82264.html Good luck. |
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20th Feb 2022 6:28pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Thanks Matt - I too think the error code may be a red herring, which is why I didn't jump in and order the throttle assy.
I'm leaning towards the EGR. I spent a lot of time, money and effort getting to this point. My thought is to change the EGR and if I don't get reliable running, I will try a good Indie. Difficult area because the Diag Tools don't help much, and being an intermittent fault can be hard for anyone to trace the proper root cause... 
Appreciate your input. Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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20th Feb 2022 7:14pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Chaps - still having the same problem...
https://vimeo.com/user167361786/review/679693605/9f61068539 I have doused the EGR bolts in "liquid wrench" getting ready to order an EGR. Had some long drives recently (160 mile on Monday, incl some towing) and the problem still exists. It's only WARM STARTS. Everything else seems bang on, it's running great. Cold starts are OK, running is excellent, MPG fine, no black smoke, just a poor starting if I have only left the Defender for a few minutes (like filling-up at the garage). No MIL light, no error codes on my IID tool. Is there anyone on here, or can someone recommend a good specialist who could take a proper look? Happy to pay of course, just to stop going round in circles... Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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2nd Mar 2022 12:18pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Chaps
This morning I spent a few hours changing the EGR, and nothing at all has changed. The Defender starts perfectly when cold. It runs & pulls as well as ever when running. However it will not start easily when HOT. (i.e. stopping at a petrol station). It will only start if I apply large amounts of the accelerator and make it rev on startup, then it settles down to a normal tickover. https://vimeo.com/user167361786/review/679...f90a18050c So I am at the end of my ideas. Changed MAF, MAP, VCV (twice), EGR, Fuel pressure switch and fuel rail pressure valve. It's well serviced and had new air/fuel filters ~3000 miles back. I've put several tanks of fuel through, and used fuel additives. Nothing has fixed it. No MIL light, and my IID tool shows no errors. Any ideas please??? Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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2nd Jun 2022 1:43pm |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Clutching at straws, ordered a camshaft sensor...
Can anyone shed any light on the difference between cold starts (which are spot-on) and warm starts? Is there a fuel temperature sensor (edit - found it - LR045361)? Would that have an effect? Something that (like the old "choke" on carburettors) is different between cold and hot starts that could make a difference? I know there's a fuel cooler... Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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3rd Jun 2022 8:07am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240
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There's a cylinder head temperature (CHT) sensor that's been known to cause issues, I think.
EDIT: A quick search on here for CHT brought up a fair number of posts describing similar problems that it can cause. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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3rd Jun 2022 8:40am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Thanks LRA. I think I can measure that with my IID - I will have a look and see - thanks for the pointer
 Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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3rd Jun 2022 8:44am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Thanks Dinnu - I don't know how to test the injectors so I'll do some research. What i really need is access to a good local LR Specialist, but don't know any local TDCI specialists... Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
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3rd Jun 2022 9:31am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3208  
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Injectors are a bit of a specialist part.. not really an LR specialist garage, but a fuel injection specialist.
Maybe you can read live data such as rail pressure and injection timing and compare cold and warm starts before making a decision. I do not know if some or all of the so called injector cleaners could work, are are just snake oil, but for what they cost, perhaps could try see if it makes any slight difference. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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3rd Jun 2022 1:38pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 19578
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PF Jones where many including myself get their VCV’s from are a diesel specialist.
I would imagine they can do Injectors as well. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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3rd Jun 2022 6:16pm |
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| Landymatt Member Since: 31 Dec 2018 Location: York Posts: 191
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Auto Diesel Technics in Ulverston - not a Landy specialist but Steve Shuttleworth knows his stuff and not far from you…
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4th Jun 2022 8:18am |
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| MartinK Member Since: 02 Mar 2011 Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border) Posts: 2664
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Thanks Dinnu, CustomSteve, Landymatt - some good ideas there.
I'm going to Ulverston next week, I may drop by. I'll update as it unravels, as the ultimate "fix" may be needed by someone else. The Cam Position sensor should arrive on Monday/Tuesday I'll bob that in and see what happens. The Head Temp Sensor may be another easy attempt,...fingers crossed, I have to drive my GF to the airport (3 hours round trip) this evening...I'll take the Defender Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's) |
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4th Jun 2022 1:54pm |
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