 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Driven: New Defender - On & Off Road. Is it a Pretender? |
 
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 543  
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I know someone who has chopped in a 3 year old RRS for a Defender. And quite a bit of talk of people going for a Defender instead of a D5.
I’m not certain who JLR are really targeting. But there seems to be huge cross over in their model range these days. Not a great deal of variety and largely pitched at the same kind of person. I hope that new Defender sales aren’t at the sacrifice of other models. Anyone else have similar feelings? |
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18th Aug 2020 4:42pm |
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| Telemarkskier Member Since: 20 Jul 2020 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 115
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I was targeted by the vehicle. Was looking for something a bit larger than my Freelander 2 with similarly good driving position, view and seat comfort with through load capacity. Disco Sport did not fit me but the Defender did!
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18th Aug 2020 5:45pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3750 
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They failed getting the intended market (younger women) to buy Evoque when many sales went to professional guys who would possibly have bought a Saab and young families. As a single retired person with now shallow pockets, no kids, definitely not a hip name and owning another a Defender then I’m not the intended market for New Defender but I have one. Maybe a review of the intended market is required - comfortably off recent retirees with kids who have flown the nest and already owning an older Defender - people who appreciate a bit of comfort and the ability to go anywhere in persuit of their hobbies maybe Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come 2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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18th Aug 2020 6:11pm |
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| Pacha Member Since: 23 Feb 2020 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 772 
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I think that they currently have different iterations of the same thing - an SUV. As to this having longevity, I am not sure TBH. Rgds. Chris |
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18th Aug 2020 6:46pm |
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| NinetyTD4 Member Since: 22 Apr 2011 Location: North Posts: 397  
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It is not a fail, but rather a And Now for Something Completely Different ... My pockets are deep, but protected by barbed wire when related to BS. 2.4 been changed to 2.2 DPF, is now even only 2.0, but I got 3 kids, so match is fading away. ‚Hip name‘ ... nope. It would have been helpful if JLR had communicated a target group (maybe they don‘t have one?). Never forget: cars have owner, Landrover have field service personnel. |
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18th Aug 2020 8:12pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 543
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Or the Velar or the Discovery 5 or the F-Pace or the Range Rover Sport  |
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18th Aug 2020 9:12pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 543
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Video Review of the new Defender:
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19th Aug 2020 9:01am |
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| Smilesapart Member Since: 28 Sep 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 735
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So just to be clear 2.5 out of 10 as a Defender replacement?! So if it had been a manual, with an absolutely hideous ride on the road, no room for your right arm unless you opened the drivers doors and a chassis dripping in rust after A year, would it have got a higher score?
I think you haters are all totally missing a really important issue here. This is the first replacement the Series III/Defender has ever seen. Most models have seen several completely new versions of its model over the same time period. Each new model gets a bit further and a bit further still away from the original until all these years later it bares little or no resemblance to it’s original. I mean look at the Porsche 911. Once a small, pretty air cooled sports car, is now twice the size in all dimensions, absolutely filled with tech and without even an air cooled engine as an option. Isn’t it time to just accept this is the new Defender and move on. If you don’t want to buy it, fine. But as someone who does want one, I’m finding this continuous criticism of it from those of you who have no intention of owning one a little boring. Land Rover has been telling us that this new Defender is not aimed at pleasing the original Die Hard Defender owners since 2016 so it should hardly have come as such a surprise that so many of you don’t like it!! It’s not like you weren’t warned. Maybe you should just stick to the posts on the original Defender Section of the forum you so love. If those of us who are happily embracing the New Defender just kept adding there two pennies worth continually going on about how crap your original Defenders are compared to the new one when A) some new Defender owners on here will never even driven one, or B) they have no intention of ever buying one, you’d all soon have plenty to say to them about it! Sold the Puma Defender and bought a brand new Pangea Green 2020 Defender D240 S with a few factory extras! |
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19th Aug 2020 4:08pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3750
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Well said
 Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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19th Aug 2020 4:16pm |
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| redneckwilly Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Colorado Posts: 12 
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Chicken, you are turning your envy into anger. Let it go, you will sleep better at night. |
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19th Aug 2020 5:17pm |
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| Pacha Member Since: 23 Feb 2020 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 772
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I agree Tim. There a lots of cars from different manufacturers that I do not like - I would never suggest the use of the word 'hate' it makes no sense, we are talking about a car here. I would like to see a 90 in the flesh if it happens - 110 would never be on my list (no need for the size or room). As for people who seem to be trying their best to be negative or wind up current/future owners - leave it out. Anybody can pick faults with a car - easiest game in town!. Rgds. Chris |
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19th Aug 2020 5:39pm |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3247 
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The 90 looks the business, I’ve only seen the commercial but looks wise there ain’t much difference other than windows. There’s just a couple of things that I think I might struggle with and may grate on me over time, I don’t mind folding the seats down for the dogs if they folded flat. So I think I’m best with the 110 even though I’ll probably want a 90 as soon as I’ve seen it.
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19th Aug 2020 5:48pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3750
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I would have preferred a 90 but the lack of a boot when the rear seat are up and them not folding to a flat boot floor when down was a problem for me. When I thought about it overnight after the test drive other things also cropped up like no firm production date, no firm date for a PHEV version or it seems not coming anytime soon and then possibly as a P300E when there is a perfectly good P400E 4 cylinder PHEV already in LR's engine range really made decide to go for the 110 which is way bigger than I need. But then I could have bought my 2nd or 3rd choice (and significantly cheaper) vehicles and not supported JLR (even if New Defender isn’t made in the UK) by buying a Tesla or a Kia. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! Last edited by Tim in Scotland on 19th Aug 2020 6:01pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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19th Aug 2020 5:59pm |
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| lohr500 Member Since: 14 Sep 2014 Location: Skipton Posts: 1285 
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At the end of the day it all comes down to personal choice.
For sure, lots of Puma era Defender owners (myself included for 90% of the time) use or used their vehicles as on-highway SUV's. We put up with the shortcomings of an antiquated design on which very little R&D money had been spent for decades because we had a strong bond with the brand. Personally there was a real sense of joy whenever I drove it, the nostalgic element of driving something with a real history, the fact that I could fix most things myself without having to sell one of my kidneys to pay the main dealer and knowing that I wasn't buying into something that would be obsolete and suffer massive depreciation in 10 years time. I can only assume that people who own and drive Morgans will feel the same. Other Defender owners want/need a real workhorse and aren't concerned over throwing a dead sheep in the back, having plant and equipment stacked up in the load area or doing too much expensive damage underneath when they hit the rough stuff. They don't want expensive leather seats or cloth ones that stain at the first sight of water. They don't want a vehicle where to change a light bulb you have to dismantle half the rear end. Neither do they want electronic everything with the associated high cost of maintenance. Ever increasing legislation means some of the electronics are now unavoidable, but the utility owner wants the minimum of electronic assistance, basic creature comforts, high reliability, low maintenance costs and high residual values. I don't see new Defender meeting any of these requirements. Once you take away the link to the old which I think attracted so many of us to old Defender and you roll out a vehicle that doesn't tick any boxes for the utility customer, then what are you left with that would attract these two customer types to new Defender? I'd stick my neck out and guess that the highest % of forum members on this site and of Defenders in general fall into one of the two categories above. Hence the number of neysayers. In new Defender we have what appears to be a highly competent, but highly priced, go anywhere premium SUV. For anyone wanting such a vehicle, the choice is massive both within the JLR stable and elsewhere. If someone chooses new Defender in preference to something else then they do so for their own reasons and it's their decision. They are not wrong or foolish for doing so and we should all respect their decision. And I am really pleased that we have new owners on this forum providing real life experience feedback on vehicles that they have purchased and not just based around a 3 hour test drive. But I think it is cynical and frankly insulting for JLR to market the new vehicle as a Defender. What I had hoped for in new Defender was an evolution, improving on the basic design and reliability without losing the charm of the old. sadly that wasn't to be. It's why I turned to the dark side and bought a Wrangler. Old school yes, but now updated with enough creature comforts to make it a practical everyday vehicle and long distance cruiser. And it still performs amazing off road in stock form. As seems to be the case with new Defender, I've had my share of early adopter problems, but these have all been sorted and they haven't tarnished the enjoyment. Jim Ratcliffe is no fool and cannot be investing so heavily in Grenadier purely for his own ego. (Unless it is some for of tax write off exercise?) Just as Gerry and the JLR Leadership team must have decided there is a big enough and profitable market for new Defender, so Jim Ratcliffe must believe he can capture a reasonable slice of the utility market with Grenadier. Time will tell if both, either or neither was right. |
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19th Aug 2020 6:01pm |
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