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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Huttopia wrote:
ids wrote:


I keep asking myself do I want to be a beta tester of a 50K vehicle ?



Exactly this point. I'm sure the 2021 or 2022 vehicles will have the spec and gremlins sorted out properly, by 2023 we will know about all the 'this part fails after 75k' and also get a proper feels for general reliability. Residuals will also be a guide of sorts as to how well the product has performed.

If my P38 can be flummoxed by parking it to close to a phone mast, it will be interesting to see how will something with 85 ecus will cope!


Huttopia, you really think that JLR, with their electrics ‘pedigree’ will sort out the gremlins in 85ECUs within two years? Who spiked your drink last night? Whistle Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #799585 26th Oct 2019 6:59am
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ids



Member Since: 06 Jun 2019
Location: Forest of Dean
Posts: 35

United Kingdom 
Times change and i'd say 95% of vehicles on the road have complicated bus type electrics. They are cost effective and reliable. They are.... you cant live in the dark ages forever, nor can you stop progress. More and more is being made compulsary at EU and world level. ABS started it, but now traction/stability control, lane warning, emergency brake assist, auto lights/wipers and next data logging/speed control.

All this takes a lot of sensors, controllers/ECU's and the manufacturers have no choice.

So yes, I can believe 85 ECU's. Know how many a BMW/Merc/Audi have in them ? At least 100, a lot getting up to 150. Making waterproof looms and connectors isn't difficult as they arn't made user serviceable. The military have had them for a long time.

What you may be concerned about is the software quality however, hence them doing in place updates. Its the modern way, like Tesla. All IT kit does it.

Time will tell and prove one way or the other I guess...
Post #799727 27th Oct 2019 8:41pm
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Ecco



Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 278

Malaysia 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Galway Green
Quote:
So yes, I can believe 85 ECU's. Know how many a BMW/Merc/Audi have in them ? At least 100, a lot getting up to 150. Making waterproof looms and connectors isn't difficult as they arn't made user serviceable. The military have had them for a long time.


..with great confidence, i can say that you have no idea what are you talking about, when we talk about ECU's, especially military/high end industrial grade one..if you trying to convince anyone here that consumer/automotive market uses same grade MCU's as military does, you are living in a dreamworld...BMW/Audi/Merc has 100+ ECU's?? Name to me just 40 of them, and purpose they serve?? Did you really mean ECU's or SENSORS. Im curious to know.

As someone who design industrial grade electronics and firmware for it (mainly oil and gas and CNC machines), i can tell you that what you have said just now is completely false..
Post #799745 28th Oct 2019 12:52am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3748

 
The ECUs don’t seem to be a problem with L322 FFRR, Disco3 or4, RRS L320’sAnd L494’s, Evoques and DiscoSports that we increasing see coming along to offroad days (some of which involve wading or deep mud drives) and some of the D3’s and D4’s get far more abuse than many of the Defenders on these days. I don’t think that it is going to be a problem for most of the market JLR sees as buying New Defender.
In my experience ECU’s are the least of the problem areas for modern Land Rovers used offroad - Electric Parking brakes that clog up with muck and debris and salesmen telling people that you will get through whatever the conditions in your car fitted with low profile all season tyres and Terrain Response. Some of the modern systems are no let down by the vehicle or tyres, they are let down by the driver who hasn’t a clue how to use the systems in his hands - he was sold a car that allegedly could go anywhere without modification straight out of the showroom. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!


Last edited by Tim in Scotland on 28th Oct 2019 10:22am. Edited 2 times in total
Post #799768 28th Oct 2019 10:10am
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Huttopia



Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1964

United Kingdom 
Grenadier wrote:
Huttopia wrote:
ids wrote:


I keep asking myself do I want to be a beta tester of a 50K vehicle ?



Exactly this point. I'm sure the 2021 or 2022 vehicles will have the spec and gremlins sorted out properly, by 2023 we will know about all the 'this part fails after 75k' and also get a proper feels for general reliability. Residuals will also be a guide of sorts as to how well the product has performed.

If my P38 can be flummoxed by parking it to close to a phone mast, it will be interesting to see how will something with 85 ecus will cope!


Huttopia, you really think that JLR, with their electrics ‘pedigree’ will sort out the gremlins in 85ECUs within two years? Who spiked your drink last night? Whistle


Fair point! It's not all that far fetched though. We all need a bit of good news in these rather dark days and against all the odds, flying in the face of perceived wisdom and chalking up a triumph for hope over experience, my P38 has just passed it's MOT with no advisories. It feels like I've won the lottery and a date with Danni Minogue.
Post #799771 28th Oct 2019 10:18am
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familymad



Member Since: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Bucks
Posts: 3459

 2016 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black
Anyone ordered black? It’s nearly finished ...



Click image to enlarge
 1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI
1995 90 300TDI
Post #799794 28th Oct 2019 4:06pm
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mikelike



Member Since: 31 Aug 2011
Location: new zealand
Posts: 108

THATS a 1998 Freelander 1 !
Post #799832 28th Oct 2019 8:44pm
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ids



Member Since: 06 Jun 2019
Location: Forest of Dean
Posts: 35

United Kingdom 
Ecco wrote:
Quote:
So yes, I can believe 85 ECU's. Know how many a BMW/Merc/Audi have in them ? At least 100, a lot getting up to 150. Making waterproof looms and connectors isn't difficult as they arn't made user serviceable. The military have had them for a long time.


..with great confidence, i can say that you have no idea what are you talking about, when we talk about ECU's, especially military/high end industrial grade one..if you trying to convince anyone here that consumer/automotive market uses same grade MCU's as military does, you are living in a dreamworld...BMW/Audi/Merc has 100+ ECU's?? Name to me just 40 of them, and purpose they serve?? Did you really mean ECU's or SENSORS. Im curious to know.

As someone who design industrial grade electronics and firmware for it (mainly oil and gas and CNC machines), i can tell you that what you have said just now is completely false..


As usual for the internet someone wants to know the detail. Check a Merc S class for instance.... I am not trying to say they all have that number. Of course not.... but things move on very quickly.

I did not say they have Military grade ECU's or connectors. I was just trying to say its possible to make waterproof connectors and enclosures.

Now in my four fuse SIIa yada.....etc.....
Post #799834 28th Oct 2019 8:48pm
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adolfy



Member Since: 01 Dec 2016
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 58

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 CSW Bronze Green
Re: Has anyone ordered one?
[quote="Stacey007"]So I've been through the configurator and as mentioned elsewhere cannot see £73k and Defender in same sentence...

I have thought....what about a basic as it comes 110. No options, STD trim....like this I found a picture but without the plate holders on the side...



Click image to enlarge






Is it me or does the rear look like a side view, of the head, of a Doctor Who cyberman? It is just ugly.

Jon

Interestingly my wife just came into the room and I asked her what she thought, her first question "is it a Mini" Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter When I told her it was the new pretender her comment was " oh it's got nothing going for it" How right she is! Land Rover 1950 series 1
Land Rover LWB 1967 series 2A
Land Rover SWB 1980 series 3
Land Rover 110 Defender 2013
Post #800170 31st Oct 2019 9:41am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3748

 
Most basic, no options, white paint (only zero cost paint on base model) and least powerful engine looks like this From the configurator by print screens)


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge
 Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #800172 31st Oct 2019 10:15am
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nidge n



Member Since: 04 Feb 2012
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 714

 
How much did that run to please? To me it looks like a late £20K to £30K product, and sadly i would struggle to buy it at that.
Post #800241 31st Oct 2019 7:55pm
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3748

 
>£45500 Just speccing the D240 motor instead of the D180 will lift the price to >£51000 - £6000 for an ECU remap is taking the p**s a bit. You want factory fitted recovery points in the rear bumper? That will be >£900 thank you sir, but they are painted orange for that price! Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #800271 31st Oct 2019 11:49pm
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Tim in Scotland wrote:


Click image to enlarge


Could that look any more like a D3 if it tried? Whistle Big Cry Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #800285 1st Nov 2019 7:37am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Tim in Scotland wrote:
>£45500 Just speccing the D240 motor instead of the D180 will lift the price to >£51000 - £6000 for an ECU remap is taking the p**s a bit.


Is that honestly the only difference?

I also wonder how many of those 85 ecus would need to be remapped for the change, engine, gearbox, but what else?
Post #800288 1st Nov 2019 7:54am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3748

 
As far as I can see on the configurator you also get 19” Alloys if you upgrade to the D240 engine, cannot see that accounting for £4500 of the difference though. Both get basic LED headlights, all the electronics required by regulation, air springs, full suite of TR2 programs and rubber floor covering instead of carpets. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #800298 1st Nov 2019 9:23am
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