 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Main Grenadier discussion thread |
 
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| Slideywindows Member Since: 09 Sep 2016 Location: North Essex Posts: 1283  
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Compare the number of "haters" on here for the L663 to the number of haters for the Grenadier as evidenced on this thread - (one?)
I know goodwill isn't sales, but it must be encouraging for Ineos, especially as many of the comments below their video are saying "Take my money now!" Back to Alpine Lights. They were first introduced on SI Station Wagons and mainly - especially on the LWB versions - because the chassis design meant that passengers in the middle row seats were sitting much higher than those on the front seats. Without the Alpine lights, visibility was much restricted as your head was up closer to the roof. If the design of the Grenadier puts the middle row seats lower, so you can get a good side view from the windows, Alpine Lights become unnecessary. |
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17th Feb 2021 7:14pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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No ~ entirely yours ~ what did it have to do with Bowler's press office?
You only have to look at that chassis to see if the lattice frame was aluminium it wouldn't be lasting very long in any rally raid. Why not provide a link for this Autocar article?
Absolutely. You can see how easy it is to hoodwink some people... |
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17th Feb 2021 7:25pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I wonder if it would be inconceivable that they couldn't be converted to alpine lights, either instead of the tie downs; or even better in addition to. It would just need a concave, rather than convex, piece of glass? |
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17th Feb 2021 7:33pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Indeed. “It is universally recognized that torsional stiffness is one of the most important properties of a vehicle chassis...” https://saemobilus.sae.org/content/2010-01-0094/ Not sure alpine windows are going to happen looking at the pictures inside the body, there’s a deep box section running along the top of the pillars:  |
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17th Feb 2021 7:58pm |
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| milesr3 Member Since: 12 Feb 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 873 
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The new Defender has the most rigid aluminium chassis (unibody) produced by Land Rover but it is no more rigid than the old Freelander 2 and less rigid than the old L322 RR. With the Grenadier taking the same approach, of steel body on ladder frame chassis, it's unlikely to be lacking in rigidity.
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17th Feb 2021 8:16pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4004 
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The abstract goes on to say that the reason it is important is for dynamic and vibration/resonance. 2 things that will be less of a priority in Grenadier than in a Land Rover product. You can't have premium verticallity if it is wobbling over the place 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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17th Feb 2021 8:19pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Figures around the internet seem to vary (think some cars are listed as Nm/mm rather than Nm/degree) - LR said the new Defender was “the stiffest Land Rover body ever created”, but the Freelander 2, L322 and L663 (all monocoque) are all around 30k Nm/degree (28k, 29k, 30k, 32k from various sources). If you believe the LR comparison, the old Defender was surprisingly stiff (despite the flimsy body) - and the new G Class is surprisingly flexible (maybe just the limitations of the construction). The Grenadier’s build looks fairly substantial so it will be interesting to know where it fits in. |
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17th Feb 2021 8:57pm |
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| milesr3 Member Since: 12 Feb 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 873
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Click image to enlarge |
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17th Feb 2021 9:20pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Yes - others are less specific:
“... the stiffest Land Rover body ever created” https://media.landrover.com/en-us/news/201...r-defender |
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17th Feb 2021 9:24pm |
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| milesr3 Member Since: 12 Feb 2013 Location: Suffolk Posts: 873
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Not entirely truthful though is it, when it’s less rigid than one of their own traditional body on frame designs.
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17th Feb 2021 9:41pm |
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| Philip Member Since: 09 Mar 2018 Location: England Posts: 510
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Which one is that?
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17th Feb 2021 9:53pm |
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| Black Puma Member Since: 31 Jan 2015 Location: Sydney Posts: 175 
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This is encouraging. Appreciate that Ineos have been transparent about the process and brought us along for the journey. Kudos on that.
Disappointment has been obvious over certain aspects, as we have witnessed the development unfold. But myself, I am coming back around. And it appears that the mission, is to create a very good vehicle and the passion is there to see. That new Defender IMO, is a durable novelty Range Rover, that suits some buyers perfectly and good for them. The Grenadier seems to be ticking a lot of boxes for me. A bigger sized new vehicle, for adventure with the family, and useful for my work, and has a timeless look to it. Something that looks better when it get scuffed! Mostly, I will appreciate if it's built well, built to last. I'm currently giving my 2011 90 a refresh, but deep down, I know that chassis could easily rust to pieces at some point. The bean counters at JLR really didn't care about the Defender being made to last, The metal and the paint used on the old Defender chassis, is a joke. I get the feeling Ineos do care, and that has my attention, pride in producing a worthy product. And as others have said, I too am looking forward to aftermarket solutions. I am hoping and thinking, with these options, some of us will have a fantastic truck to follow on from the Defender. I better get working for that purchase! |
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18th Feb 2021 4:35am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5765  
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That’s because JLR’s approach to the new Defender has taken it out of the category that the old Defender and the new Grenadier fall in to, which is the main reason supporters of the old Defender are so hacked off with LR. Note I said LR and not the car itself, none of which (bar the odd comment on looks) have ever said is in itself a bad car. But LR’s choice was to make an off-road capable and less-luxurious SUV. The Grenadier remains firmly in the ‘focus on what it can do’ camp and then make it more comfortable. Pricing will be a concern, he detail and quality that has gone into this is clear, but it will still be markedly cheaper than the ND and in terms of its role, I’d suggest better. As for your assertions that it won’t be able to compete against the new Def off road, that’s based on what? Until they’re tested against each other it’s mere speculation and that speculation is based I suspect purely on all the electronics the ND has that the Grenadier won’t. Something the majority of classic Defender owners will like. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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18th Feb 2021 8:58am |
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| Nitroneil Member Since: 05 Mar 2019 Location: Stirling Posts: 131 
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I think the Grenadier will certainly satisfy many, I do have concerns regarding costs. The mechanics going into the prototype vehicles look high quality, my concern is there is a chassis to pay for as well as a body which looks almost as complex as the monocoque chassis the New Defender has. Additional time and associated costs in these. OK it wont have quite as many electronic gismos, but its likely heading well into Defender S territory which is top end pick-up truck area.
I would have thought Ineos should be pushing the versatility side better as opposed to standard station wagon configuration, as I was under the impression that's what it was touted as and not just people carrying. 90S D250 fuji and loving it. |
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18th Feb 2021 11:16am |
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