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RDR



Member Since: 27 Apr 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 119

United Kingdom 

quite intrigued as to what they will come up with. Do we know if it will be commercial only or they will offer a passenger vehicle option? guess commercial is easier to start with due to less safety/red tape hurdles? D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
D4 MY12 HSE - Gone
D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold
D5 MY19 HSE to be replaced by New Defender Smile

Post #808399 1st Jan 2020 5:46pm
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Slideywindows



Member Since: 09 Sep 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 966

England 

After the awful let-down many of us have felt this year (you know why), wouldn't it be ironic - and somewhat sad - if this vehicle actually excited us and gave us some positivity?

I hope it does.

Look forward to seeing it.

Post #808402 1st Jan 2020 5:56pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2112

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

RDR wrote:
quite intrigued as to what they will come up with. Do we know if it will be commercial only or they will offer a passenger vehicle option? guess commercial is easier to start with due to less safety/red tape hurdles?


The computer generated styling model I've seen was a station wagon, not unlike a 110 SW 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS

Post #808405 1st Jan 2020 6:19pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6680

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

RDR wrote:
quite intrigued as to what they will come up with. Do we know if it will be commercial only or they will offer a passenger vehicle option? guess commercial is easier to start with due to less safety/red tape hurdles?


From what I have read there will be multiple variants, and enough options to keep a current Defender owner happy.

Invitees to the Projekt Grenadier supplier day had the chance to hear about Projekt Grenadier, INEOS Automotive, and the original offroaders inspiring its new 4x4:

Click image to enlarge


Last edited by Supacat on 2nd Jan 2020 6:29pm. Edited 1 time in total

Post #808408 1st Jan 2020 6:30pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6680

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Slideywindows wrote:
After the awful let-down many of us have felt this year (you know why), wouldn't it be ironic - and somewhat sad - if this vehicle actually excited us and gave us some positivity?

I hope it does.

Look forward to seeing it.


Hey nothing sad about it. The lunatics have taken over the asylum at JLR, indeed its been indies that have kept more of us on the road than ever.

The benchmark for me with Grenadier will not be my current Defender but what else is there on the market to match it at the price point. At present, I can only think of an Ibex.

I'm also happy to purchase another vehicle that can legitimately be called British.

Post #808412 1st Jan 2020 6:37pm
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90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 642

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

You need a Datsun Cashcow in that case.......... Laughing

Post #808425 1st Jan 2020 8:24pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6680

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Yes, it may be a contentious issue. I thought I had phrased my words carefully regarding the vehicle rather than the company being British.

"According to the AA, which produces a guide to buying British cars, there are only three fully British-owned car manufacturers in the UK: Morgan, Caterham** and McLaren."

This surprises me as I thought Morgan was now Italian owned, and McLaren has been funded by Middle Eastern money for many years. Ariel appears to be missing completely.*

" The AA also lists models that are assembled in Britain, but which do not have British owners. These include Mini, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Lotus, Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Land Rover and Vauxhall."

Then to confuse things further you have things like:

"The car manufacturing process is highly intertwined with the customs union that the UK will leave as part of a hard Brexit. The crankshaft of a BMW Mini, for example, crosses the channel three times, travels 2,000 miles and visits England, France and Germany during its manufacture."

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/apr...itish-cars

*"Other niche, small volume manufacturers include Westfield, Bristol, Ariel and Noble."
https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/cars-made-in-britain

** If you follow Caterham ownership back to it's ultimate holding company then it's 100% Malaysian owned.

Post #808440 2nd Jan 2020 7:08am
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 2195

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

Ineos is an Anglo Swiss company.
The car has been designed in Germany and Austria. Off-the-shelf engines will also be bought from there. The chassis and body will be built in Portugal.
Then shipped over for final assembly in Wales so legally it can claim to be ‘Made in Britain’.
Not sure if it's truly British but I don't think that will harm sales. It may even be a plus to potential customers regarding preconceptions about reliability, manufacturing etc. Ratcliffe obviously chose stock BMW engines, German design and Portuguese manufacturing for a reason. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.

Post #808444 2nd Jan 2020 8:04am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6680

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Very Happy

Post #808447 2nd Jan 2020 10:29am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6680

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Zed wrote:
Ineos is an Anglo Swiss company.

Ineos is a beast of an organisation with many different arms, however, it would appear that the company building the vehicle is Ineos Automotive Ltd. A UK based company with entirely British directors and if you follow the chain of shareholdings for it back through the various holding companies you arrive at Ineos Industries Ltd, where there is 1 active person with significant control - Mr Mr James Arthur Ratcliffe listed as Nationality - British & Country of residence - United Kingdom. There is a further holding company arrangement in place with Ineos Ltd, but this arrives at the same result.

For taxation purposes the company states "All the Company's operations are in the UK".

Not sure how much money is being spent on the venture through separate companies - such as INEOS AUTOMOTIVE RESEARCH LIMITED - but up to 31st Dec 2018 they had got through £51m. I imagine that will have ramped up significantly in 2019.

I think the vehicles produced will pass most widely recognised definitions of being British.

Post #808451 2nd Jan 2020 10:55am
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 2612

Ireland 

Some one at JLR is probably saying
"We should do something like that". Whistle 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

Post #808454 2nd Jan 2020 11:13am
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oneten110



Member Since: 02 Jul 2011
Location: Wish I was still in France
Posts: 711

United Kingdom 

Supacat wrote:
Slideywindows wrote:
After the awful let-down many of us have felt this year (you know why), wouldn't it be ironic - and somewhat sad - if this vehicle actually excited us and gave us some positivity?

I hope it does.

Look forward to seeing it.


Hey nothing sad about it. The lunatics have taken over the asylum at JLR, indeed its been indies that have kept more of us on the road than ever.

The benchmark for me with Grenadier will not be my current Defender but what else is there on the market to match it at the price point. At present, I can only think of an Ibex.

I'm also happy to purchase another vehicle that can legitimately be called British.

Fitted with a BMW engine, how is that British? It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten

Post #808485 2nd Jan 2020 4:28pm
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LR90XS2011



Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 2808

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

do BMW still have an engine plant at Hams Hall? DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

Post #808492 2nd Jan 2020 5:47pm
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90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 642

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

People still class Bentley, Rolls Royce and MINI as British........

Post #808493 2nd Jan 2020 5:48pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6680

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

oneten110 wrote:

Fitted with a BMW engine, how is that British?


Not just any BMW engine, perhaps a bespoke spec one?

"According to sources in the industry, INEOS is quite peculiar about the sort of work these BMW engines will have to perform. They should have worldwide homologation and be able to run using low-quality fuels in places where that’s the only choice you get. Therefore, BMW has apparently set aside a budget to adapt and maybe even develop new engines for INEOS alone, that would perform the way they’re expected to. The Germans foresee the delivery of a ‘high-range five-digit number of engines.’"
https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/03/19/bmw-ann...utomotive/

Post #808507 2nd Jan 2020 6:56pm
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