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dorsetsmith



Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

glad to its still run

under warranty so I am not out of pocket also glad to see no money handed over
Post #798908 21st Oct 2019 11:25am
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othorton



Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Java Black
TD5 Cut-Out
Hi All, and a happy new year.

After a couple of months and 1000 miles of trouble free driving, the dreaded gremlin resurfaced on a trip to Tescos yesterday. Driving along without issue, slowing for some traffic lights - orange engine light pops up and she cut out. So far I know it's not the injector harness, as that was replaced with the last repair. Engine has been a steady temp when being run, no overheating and the Oil and Coolant levels constant.

What I do know:
The engine will run fine when pulling, and when in neutral (as I had it on for 10mins or so back at home) but when the defender is in gear, clutch engaged, when I lift off the accelerator it cuts out after a moment or two. It takes a good 2-3 minutes with the ignition off before trying again - the fuel pump primes, the glow plug light lights up then goes out, and she fires up.

What I suspect: Something dodgy with the fuel pump wiring. Potentially a grounding issue? Fuel Pump on the way out? If I try to start the defender immediately after the issue, she turns over, but doesn't catch. I might be imagining it but the fuel pump seems awfully quiet during this time, whereas usually it's reassuringly loud.

What I was told last time by the forum (and will ask to be checked when it goes into the garage): Crank position sensor.

Whilst I have AA cover, I'd rather not run the risk of limping it back up to rockingham Landrovers in the shire, so for any London based DEF2 members - could you recommend a decent indy within an hour of Central London please?

Hopefully this breakdown happening yesterday is a roundup of 2019s breakdowns and not a taste of things to come in 2020 Laughing Big Cry
Post #808356 1st Jan 2020 12:39pm
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achuakh



Member Since: 12 Apr 2012
Location: Singapore
Posts: 157

Singapore 2002 Defender 90 Td5 SW Oslo Blue
I still believe that it's the crank sensor.
Most likely a wiring issue. It's possible that the wire at the connector is loose or shorted which will result in it stalling.

I had this issue before when it will be really fine when driving and wiggling the cable can sometimes cause it to stall.
It turns out, the cable is almost broken at the end where it meets the terminal pin. Almost impossible to tell when looking at the connector as it looks perfect.

When it stalls, the check engine light comes on, like what you mentioned. From the land of the most expensive land rover defenders on planet earth. At �125k for a XS 110 csw and you get to own it only for 10yrs! Please find me a good reason to stay on this island.
Post #808472 2nd Jan 2020 1:35pm
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MadTom



Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 556

Czech Republic 1999 Defender 130 Td5 HCPU Baltic Blue
Fuel pump - TD5 runs without working fuel pump. When the fuel pump works at least parly, TD5 has only reduced maximall power. With totally not working fuel pump, TD5 runs, but only with very low power, barely able to run on 1st or 2nd gear, uphill only in 1st. All these only with enough fuel in tank. I have this experience from several TD5 powered cars.
Crank sensor - cable is shielded twisted pair. It can broke, but ECU is sensing the sensor output carefully, so any problem should lead to some fault code in ECU. I made replacement cable several times - for broken one or to make the cable longer to move engine ECU.
ECU problems - I have repaired some TD5 engine ECUs with disapearing problems - they were OK for aprox. half hour run, and then the engine suddenly stopped. It was possible to restart the engine several times, but it was going worse and worse. It had always some fault code in ECU - like Top switch failure.

Try it with Nanocom or some other diagnostics first. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo Smile
Post #808565 3rd Jan 2020 8:14am
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othorton



Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Java Black
Thanks both for the advice. I have bough a cheapo OBD reader to see if I can read the faults. Last time the ECU was throwing an injector fault but nothing Crank sensor related. It was only after the garage tried to re-prime the system after replacing the injector harness that they found an issue with the fuel pump wiring.

I will ask the garage to replace the sensor as a preventative measure as I don't believe it's a hugely difficult nor expensive job.

With respect to MadTom, the defender hasn't exhibited any power issues - it pulls hard through all the gears, but will cut out or (as achuakh says) stall after I lift my foot off the accelerator. This happened a few months ago and with the fuel pump wiring being sorted has given me over 1000 trouble free miles.

In the meantime, having spoken to Gigglepin 4x4 I will do a fuel system purge, check the battery connectors and give all the relays under the drivers' seat a wiggle to check there aren't any issues there. Otherwise the defender is going to be booked in at the end of Jan for a new fuel pump, wiring and CPS.
Post #808595 3rd Jan 2020 12:46pm
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othorton



Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Java Black
So the saga continues, with both bad news and good news. Fortunately the good news far outweighs the bad news despite being bittersweet.

Bad news - the problem is still ongoing.

Good news - I'm saving money with continued diagnosis on my side. I'm steadily eliminating issues without actually having taken it into a garage. I checked all the contacts on the 3 relays under the driver's seat and they were all clean. There is no oil in the ECU. The earth for the ECU is bolted to the frame and not jumping around.

Another problem I believe I've eliminated - the fuel pump appears to be working fine. Even once the engine cuts and you turn on the ignition back on, the fuel pump whirrs away quite happily. It just won't start for at least a minute or 2 without the ignition on.

The engine ONLY cuts out when coasting. I managed to recreate it twice on a short quarter mile drive. 3rd gear, 20mph, take foot off accelerator, and within a second or 2 it cuts out. Unfortunately the OBD tool hasn't arrived yet but I'm going to get it into a garage ASAP for the CPS to be replaced.
Post #809838 11th Jan 2020 4:15pm
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othorton



Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Java Black
Update for you all after a another week of testing:

Took it up the Farm this weekend after Mo generously offered to help me with some routine maintenance stuff. We replaced the fuel filter (was Britpart, now Mahle) and purged the system a few times. The chaps up there commented that the fuel pump was very noisy which might be causing an issue. We also replaced the crank positioning sensor which was absolutely covered in oil. We plugged the Nanocom in and it didn't throw up any faults - and using it to test the voltages coming from the accelerator we should be able to rule out the potentiometer. After replacing I took the defender on a 20 min drive and the issue seemed fixed. Driving back to London it was fine up until the A13 where it decided to break down whilst in stop start traffic. Unfortunately 3 hours later it was on the back of a big yellow Taxi back to the farm. Next thing to look at is the ECU and loom.


It looks like there's a leak from the fuel pressure regulator so that's on order along with some other bits and pieces for the fuel system including air bleed and fuel return valves. In addition I've ordered oil filters and a new belt for a service, in addition to a new rear drive flange and pinion seal as it's weeping.

The only good bit of news was that I got a great Squad shot at the local costa.



Click image to enlarge
Post #812296 28th Jan 2020 10:32am
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othorton



Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

United Kingdom 2005 Defender 90 Td5 CSW Java Black
Hi All,

Hopefully the last time I post on this thread as we think the problem has been sorted. I'm currently running on a spare ECU with mine off to be rebuilt. I've had 300 trouble free miles since the switch over - with Neil thinking that either the problem rests with the ECU having issues, or the Map itself (non standard but unknown) causing the revs to drop off too much on overrun and the engine to stall.

Can't thank Neil enough for all the help. With a little luck and a fair wind this is the last of the issue. If not you can read about it on here with my next post.

Thanks,

Oliver
Post #815616 17th Feb 2020 12:50pm
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