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othorton

Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

TD5 Cut-Out

Hi All,

First off, apologies if there is already a thread on this but I can't find one in which Oil in the Injector Loom causes the engine to shut off completely without warning.

The Landy is a 2005 D90, 101k, Blanked EGR, Unknown if remapped.

I had my first break-down yesterday, a right of passage I suppose in the ever blossoming story that is Defender ownership. I was on the M40 doing a steady 65 which I'd been averaging for the past 5 hours from Manchester to London when all of a sudden the engine cut completely, and a myriad of warning lights popped up on the dash: Amber Engine light, red Oil, red Battery. I turned off the ignition on the hard shoulder and sat for 2 or 3 minutes, before she fired back up again.

I managed another 20 or 30 miles before the same thing happened, this time doing 40 merging onto the A40. I pulled over onto the hard shoulder and called the AA. After another 2-3 minutes we started back up and pulled off the A40 where he then plugged in his diagnostic equipment. Apart from a number of faults relating to air con and cruise control (which I believe are common on defenders which have neither) there was one other fault, which was Engine Control - 7M3/ Diesel UI. which related to an issue with the injectors.

I had read on here previously about oil working its way into the ECU via the injector loom, and we did find the tiniest bit of oil on a single Pin in the Red connector in the ECU. Rubbing the oil off and clearing the fault code, I then did another hour's driving home (followed by AA) and the code did not reappear. IIRC the pin was connected to a yellow wire.

My question for the Forum wizards is two-fold:

1. Could Oil making its way to the ECU cause the engine to completely cut out, but then turn on and run seemingly fine?
2. Could there be another engine related issue causing the cut out which isn't throwing a fault code?

If the answer to 1 is yes, do I need to replace the whole loom and the injector harness, or will cleaning the loom and replacing the harness be sufficient?

For reference, in neither situation was I pushing the defender especially hard, and had done a number of harder uphill accelerations with no reported issues on the same journey.

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can assist.

Oliver

Last edited by othorton on 1st Jan 2020 1:45pm. Edited 1 time in total

23rd Sep 2019 10:44am

bankz5152

Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 2069

I would say dodgy / loose crank sensor wireing.

Had very similar issue recently Instagram @defender_ventures
Empire Tuning - Agent

23rd Sep 2019 11:17am

benniferj

Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 361

You say you've found some oil thats migrated all the way down the loom to the ECU end. So what about the join at the front of the rocker cover, I expect that is positively gushing and all sorts of shorting etc.

I would start with a rocker cover gasket and a Bearmach or better quality injector loom. Its a 5 min job with an 8mm socket as the only tool required.

23rd Sep 2019 11:31am

othorton

Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

Hi Both,

Thanks for your replies. We took the rocker cover off to take a look and see if there were any obvious issues with the injector connections. I certainly never noticed any evidence of oil "positively gushing and all sorts of shorting" at the front of the rocker cover. Admittedly I am new to Defender ownership, and having only ever owned German Hatchbacks which are majority electric I am not well versed in the TD5 Engine, however the Oil working its way down the injector loom is a seemingly common issue - many people change the injector harness as an annual service item.

I will order the bearmach parts and see whether that solves the issue - thanks for the advice. If it occurs again after that replacement I will get it booked into my local indy to see if they can diagnose any issues.

Oliver

23rd Sep 2019 12:32pm

benniferj

Member Since: 20 Oct 2016
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 361

Seeing I’m at the car right now ...
If you have oil in the ecu it migrated from the rocker area. So I am shocked you have no signs of oil at the multi pin join here
You did look in the connector yeah?

Click image to enlarge

23rd Sep 2019 12:35pm

othorton

Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

I didn't look at the connector. Unfortunately I didn't know that it was a spot to look at until some more googling this morning whilst at work. I will take a look tomorrow but suspect that if there is oil in the ECU connector, there will be oil in the multi pin joint.

Do you recommend replacing the whole loom? Or just cleaning it out. I will get the rocker cover gasket and injector harness on order.

Is it undrivable until that point - or would you expect it to be fine so long as what little oil might have worked its way up is cleaned out?

Thanks,

Oliver

23rd Sep 2019 12:53pm

MadTom

Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 575

The oil is not a real problem - for such a low voltages in car it is very good isolator. First try it with some diagnostic equipment like Nanocom. Before you start changing any parts. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo

23rd Sep 2019 2:05pm

familymad

Member Since: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Bucks
Posts: 3463

2016 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black

Had this a few times on Td5’s. Pop the red connector off onto the ECU under the drivers seat. You will see oil if so.

Basically requires the injector loom changing which is an easy DIY job. Put a little nick in the lowest point/bend in the loom casing near the ECU and give the oil somewhere to drip out. Clean the connector weekly for next few months and it will all be good again. 1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI
1995 90 300TDI

23rd Sep 2019 3:18pm

othorton

Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

Thanks Family Mad,

Just to confirm - when you say you've had this before, are you referring to oil in the red connector, or the unexpected shut-off?

Thanks,

Oliver

23rd Sep 2019 3:38pm

familymad

Member Since: 13 Dec 2011
Location: Bucks
Posts: 3463

Hi,

Both. And they are linked. Started with rough running in a 90 I had. In a 110 i was driving from Scotland to London it was an out of the blue engine that stopped with no warning. 1951 80" S1 2.0
1995 110 300TDI
1995 90 300TDI

23rd Sep 2019 3:48pm

bankz5152

Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 2069

Not heard of oil in the plug causing total engine shut off before. Rough running yes but not total failure.

Easy to clean anyway but i would check the crank sensor wiring as well. Can cause these exact issues. Instagram @defender_ventures
Empire Tuning - Agent

23rd Sep 2019 4:17pm

othorton

Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

Hi Bankz,

Thanks for the reply. I will take a look at the wiring, though in fairness I won't know what I'm looking for/at. From what I've read about the Crank Sensor, if this isn't working, the engine will fail and then not start. Each of the two times it happened, the engine was warm, and after 2 or 3 minutes it started up again without issue. Would a faulty sensor 'reset' after a couple of minutes of the ignition being off?

In the meantime, I have ordered a new Injector harness and cam cover gasket, which I will replace as part of a service schedule. @Family Mad, I will clean out the pins in the ECU and cut the small hole you mentioned.

Thanks,

Oliver

23rd Sep 2019 4:35pm

bankz5152

Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 2069

Not if the wiring is breaking a circuit. Connecting and disconecting due to vibration.

Like so -

Click image to enlarge

Its on the left hand side of the bellhousing on the side/top area. Instagram @defender_ventures
Empire Tuning - Agent

23rd Sep 2019 6:24pm

Mdm

Member Since: 11 Sep 2013
Location: Sunny Lancashire
Posts: 1526

i would get it plugged into a lr spec diagnostics system.

it can be many things.

oil in the loom doesn't usually cause the issues you have had.
wiring to crank position senor or the sensor itself
followed by the ecu failing.

ask me how i know.

23rd Sep 2019 8:03pm

othorton

Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: London
Posts: 104

Thanks Mdm.

The OBD from the AA didn't show any faults, but I imagine it wouldn't be as good as a landrover specific diagnostic tool. Given you're the third person to mention the Crank sensor I will go down that avenue in my investigation.

I know a good Indy up in Leicestershire and will book in there as soon as I can. In the meantime, is the defender still good to drive or would you steer clear (no pun intended)?

The plan is to clean out the ECU of any potential oil anyway, and drive sympathetically until I've had someone look at it who actually knows what they're doing - assuming it's ok to drive. Otherwise I'll get it to the closest LR workshop down here in London.

Thanks,

Oliver

23rd Sep 2019 8:36pm

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