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Moash



Member Since: 07 Jul 2017
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 12

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey
Low power in 6th gear


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My 90 2007 HT seems really gutless in 6th gear when I meet even a slight gradient.

I’ve read the posts on the cleaning of the MAF/MAP sensors and was hoping for a quick fix but didn’t see any difference in performance.

I was going to take the EGR valve out and give it a clean to see if that had any impact.

I bought a GAP Diagnostic tool and thought I’d go for a run to see if the EGR valve was working. But as a complete novice I’m a bit unsure as to what I’m looking at. The commanded EGR value never moved the whole run and the Actual position of the EGR only moved when I turned the engine off.

I have no fault codes logged.

Would that seem normal? I thought it might actuate a bit more than that.

Thanks,
Scott

Post #797308 8th Oct 2019 6:09pm
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Big Harold



Member Since: 09 Jul 2018
Location: nsw
Posts: 46

Australia 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Alpine White

That's because 6th gear is overdrive you will be below optimum torque curve.
Just change into 5th you will get better power and less heat.

Post #797335 8th Oct 2019 8:37pm
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90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 457

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

I find that sitting around 2000rpm (particularly when towing) means its pretty much always in the meat of the torque and even decent inclines are not an issue in 6th.....

Post #797340 8th Oct 2019 8:45pm
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Big Harold



Member Since: 09 Jul 2018
Location: nsw
Posts: 46

Australia 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Alpine White

If I sit in 6th going up an incline @ 2000rpm I see EGT's climb to 900deg
Which heats up coolant and can overheat.
I will drop back to 5th and let the revs sit @ 2500rpm.
The engine lugs when revs are kept at 2000rpm especially in overdrive.

Post #797345 8th Oct 2019 9:37pm
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tookaphotoof



Member Since: 18 Mar 2013
Location: dordrecht
Posts: 1200

Netherlands 2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black

Big Harold wrote:
That's because 6th gear is overdrive you will be below optimum torque curve.
Just change into 5th you will get better power and less heat.


I don’t know why but on both my 2.2 Defender 130 fifth gear always feels lifeless. Never had problems with sixth gear.
Also noticed when I hear some sort of hissing noise the car lacks power. If I lift the gas pedal shortly or simply floor it I can stop the hissing and the power is back.

Post #797353 9th Oct 2019 5:46am
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ozzie1989



Member Since: 25 Feb 2009
Location: Wales
Posts: 210

Wales 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Bonatti Grey

I can't help with the graph unfortunately but I'd say something was up.

6th gear will pull my 110 (which is significantly heavier than your 90 loaded) from 50 to 70 on the motorway without issue. I don't often do 70, but prefer to sit at 60 and never change down from 6th to 5th.

I don't use 6th outside of motorway/dual carriageway scenario though, too many hills around here so 5th is my gear of choice for faster single carriage roads.

You won't have the temperature issues these guys are referring to as you're in the UK so don't worry about that. Now: 2010 2.4 TDCi 110 Utility Wagon
Then: 2004 2.5 TD5 90 Hard Top (X-Tech Edition)

Post #797356 9th Oct 2019 6:18am
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Moash



Member Since: 07 Jul 2017
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 12

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey

It definitely used to be much punchier when I first owned it.
If I’m sitting at 70 and meet a slight uphill on the motorway, with my foot to the floor my speed easily drops below 50mph. And would probably continue to drop until I change to 5th.
There’s no response from the throttle and it just feels very flat.

I drive it to work everyday, which is only a few miles, so the engine never really heats up on the short journey.
I can’t imagine these short runs have been any benefit to the EGR, so I’ll take it out and have a look.

Thanks for the replies,

Scott

Post #797449 9th Oct 2019 5:38pm
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MartinK



Member Since: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Silverdale (Lancashire/Cumbria Border)
Posts: 2376

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

You don't have something causing drag do you? Binding brake or similar???
I rarely have to change down from 6th on the open road unless speed drops below 50 - which is only the steepest/tightest roads or when laden. Having said that I don't labour it either, I like to keep it spinning fairly freely. Defender "Puma" 2.4 110 County Utility (possibly the last of the 2.4's)
Volvo XC70 (Work)
BMW K1200RS

Post #797514 10th Oct 2019 5:52am
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Moash



Member Since: 07 Jul 2017
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 12

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey

The wheels all seems to be turning freely and I can’t see anything fouling them.

I took the EGR valve out today and it seemed to be operating freely. It needed a clean but nothing excessive.
So don’t think my problem lies there.

I’ve had trouble with the turbo actuator around 18months ago and fitted a 2nd hand unit. I’ll need to have a closer look at the turbo I think.

Thanks,
Scott

Post #797765 11th Oct 2019 7:43pm
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LR90XS2011



Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 2743

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

I think it might be worth anyone who thinks there 2.4 is less pokey than when it was new cleaning their MAP and MAF as per another thread on this great forum.

My 2.4 90 pulls like a truck in 6 from 1250rpm upwards DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

Post #797795 12th Oct 2019 6:12am
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Moash



Member Since: 07 Jul 2017
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 12

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey

Yeah after reading that thread previously that was the first thing I tried, hoping for a simple fix.

Post #797838 12th Oct 2019 11:04am
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West England
Posts: 17292

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

Is you turbo actuator free moving?

There is also the possibility that the EGR is stuck closed or partially open but usually that includes the MIL being illuminated. Made In GB. 🇬🇧

Watts ÷ Volts = Amps.
Amps X Volts = Watts


Last edited by custom90steve on 14th Oct 2019 10:20am. Edited 1 time in total

Post #797839 12th Oct 2019 11:08am
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Moash



Member Since: 07 Jul 2017
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 12

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey

I unclipped the actuator linkage and the vanes in the turbo seem to be moving freely.

The actuator does move when you hit the throttle but I don’t know if it’s working correctly.

Does anyone know if you can test the turbo actuator with the gap diagnostic tool? I couldn’t see a test function.

Thanks.

Post #798027 14th Oct 2019 6:46am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 10225

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

I don't know of any tests, but it should park in mid-position when the ignition is off, and should move to a very low boost position on tickover, so to an extent you can get confirmation of some semblance of correct operation. Quite often faults, especially in the (extremely fragile) harness to the actuator, can be spotted by the actuator not parking correctly.

If the actuator is not working at all and is stuck in the no-boost position you will find that the performance is unmissably bad, it even makes a Td5 look torquey by comparison, it really is that bad! If it fails in the full-boost position the drive will more less different to normal, but it will sound at low to moderate engine speeds as though there's a rabid lion with a thorn in its foot stuck in the inlet, the roar of the induction is really quite spectacular and rather disturbing (at least it is with a full-bore inlet pipe and snorkel). I have had both failures over the years and you cannot miss either.

I think the first question to answer is whether there really is something wrong, or whether it is a question of expectation. Generally the 2.4 pulls like a train, but has yours got worse or has it always been disappointing? If the latter, do you know of anyone with one you can compare it to?

If there is a definite fault with no codes logged, it tends to suggest that it is fuel-related (probably VCV) since this is the area of the engine management system which has the least (and least effective) fault monitoring and reporting. Often you can diagnose a VCV fault by the absence of a fault code rather than the presence of one.

Post #798034 14th Oct 2019 7:53am
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Moash



Member Since: 07 Jul 2017
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 12

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey

Thanks For the information Blackwolf.

I’m fairly certain there is a problem, I’ve owned the defender for 7 years and it’s been fantastic for the majority of the time but there’s definitely something lacking of late.
I’ve ordered a new VCV valve as I don’t think it will do any harm to replace it and hopefully rule that aspect out.
The 90 hasn’t had much attention due me rebuilding a series 1 so it’s probably starting to get to an age where it needs a bit more TLC!

Thanks,
Scott

Post #798492 17th Oct 2019 10:16am
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