↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2012 Front Axle
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 4 of 5 <12345>
Print this entire topic · 
Harry dog



Member Since: 27 Oct 2016
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 24

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
Cracked weld

I have a 2012 110 Utility that has just had it's front axle casing renewed.

I thankfully noticed a small drop of oil on the drive beside the near side front wheel a couple of weeks ago. As I was passing I decided to drop into my trusted local 4x4 garage and just gets the guys there to have a look. At the first quick inspection he thought it was the gasket that connects the axle casing with the wheel hub, but after thoroughly cleaning the oil and muck off from around the area he decided to put up on the ramps to be sure - his reaction was as an owner not what you want!! "Not seen anything crack like that straight through the ******* weld!!".


Next thing the owner and two more mechanics taking long inhales of breath and shaking their heads.....Anyway long storey short - was advised to phone JLR customer services and kick up a stick, which I duly did only to told that if I took it to a main dealer they would take a look and see what needs doing and then take it from there. Having had a massive battle with them two and half years ago over another recall issue (all be it that was a Q recall) after the fuel pump sieved on a French motorway at 70mph, blowing the turbo and engine up.....(Eventually won the battle that they should pay but had to go legal and a year of my life sending emails and arguing the case). I couldn't face another battle. even if they'd looked at the vehicle and agreed to repair it, I'm sure the most they would have offered was 30% of £2500 - £3000 bill.

Solution; I decided along with the 4x4 garages advise was to swap the axle out of one they had there from a Discovery (which seemed to have double welds at the failing point). Took about a week whilst the Landy sat in their yard waiting for a ramp to come free but all done for £700 + vat.

Looking at other posts on here, thank goodness I noticed the oil on the ground and then decided to get it checked out. Would have been very easy to just think another small oil leak from a Defender.

I love my Defender and still planning on keeping it long term but it does sadden me that basic things like this are possible to fail at all, I don't take mine off road very much so it's not broken through abuse and really shouldn't happen. Certainly worth any one with an early or late Puma getting the axle casing checked - not one you'd want to at 70mph on a motorway!!!

Post #776681 8th Jun 2019 2:45pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Fifth Horseman



Member Since: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Lanarkshire
Posts: 312

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

gazman wrote:
........ Now the same engine is in the disco 5.

Err no thanks.


And still snapping cranks - saw a D5 in the local dealers workshop a few weeks back with the engine being replaced.

Post #777092 11th Jun 2019 6:54pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 10003

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Much as I love my Defender and my other Landrover vehicles, I do think that JLR's attitude to their customers absolutely sucks, to the point that I really wonder how they get away with it.

If you think of the number of design faults with the 2007-on Puma, some of which are potentially lethal defects, the existence of which JLR has acknowledged but which they simply refuse to do anything about after an absurdly short window (and usually one where work will only be done if the customer kicks up a stink), it is really shocking.

The following spring to mind for starters:

Piston cooling jets not fit for purpose - result, engine destroyed. Landrover's view if this hasn't happened in the warranty period then it won't happen, so you have to pay the full cost of a new engine out of warranty.

Oil pump failure - same result, same response from LR.

Output adaptor shaft - result total loss of drive. LR response "problem? What problem? There is nothing wrong with the design".

Axle casing failures - result according to Landrover "a reduction in the ability to steer" or similar wording, according to anyone else a bowel-evacuating moment of terror during which a total loss of control is experienced. Landrover's reaction, they'll fix it only if you happen to have a vehicle in a woefully inadequate range of VINs, despite many identical failures in vehicles outside this range (but these were obviously perfect but abused and their failure is just a coincidence). If not in the VIN range, you are on your own. Incidentally although several people on here have had their axle fail now, I think only one was in the affected VIN range.

Absolutely shocking!

Post #777096 11th Jun 2019 7:12pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Harry dog



Member Since: 27 Oct 2016
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 24

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

Fully agree with your comments Blackwolf. It's all fairly worrying of what might be next?!

Having read various posts you've put up on this forum you seem to really know your stuff - can I pick your brains on the latest problem with my 2012 TDci......Over the past week or so I have been convinced I was hearing more of a whoosing noise as I accelerated through the gears but couldn't make out if this was normal or I was noticing it more as the windows were down?! Anyway tonight as I pulled away from a junction - same whoosing noise and then the orange engine management light comes on!! Pulled over turned the engine off, looked in the manual which said drive slowwly and seek urgent machanic advice.


So, drove the mile or so home slowly, phoned my independent 4x4 garage and will take it down to them about 4 miles away in the morning. Having popped the bonnet and looked round the vehicle I noticed a very recent oil stain on the radiator grill (know its recent as I

Click image to enlarge

cleaned the Landy on the weekend)....picture attached. Any ideas?

Post #777106 11th Jun 2019 8:02pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 1798

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

blackwolf wrote:
Much as I love my Defender and my other Landrover vehicles, I do think that JLR's attitude to their customers absolutely sucks, to the point that I really wonder how they get away with it.

If you think of the number of design faults with the 2007-on Puma, some of which are potentially lethal defects, the existence of which JLR has acknowledged but which they simply refuse to do anything about after an absurdly short window (and usually one where work will only be done if the customer kicks up a stink), it is really shocking.

The following spring to mind for starters:

Piston cooling jets not fit for purpose - result, engine destroyed. Landrover's view if this hasn't happened in the warranty period then it won't happen, so you have to pay the full cost of a new engine out of warranty.

Oil pump failure - same result, same response from LR.

Output adaptor shaft - result total loss of drive. LR response "problem? What problem? There is nothing wrong with the design".

Axle casing failures - result according to Landrover "a reduction in the ability to steer" or similar wording, according to anyone else a bowel-evacuating moment of terror during which a total loss of control is experienced. Landrover's reaction, they'll fix it only if you happen to have a vehicle in a woefully inadequate range of VINs, despite many identical failures in vehicles outside this range (but these were obviously perfect but abused and their failure is just a coincidence). If not in the VIN range, you are on your own. Incidentally although several people on here have had their axle fail now, I think only one was in the affected VIN range.

Absolutely shocking!


Shocking indeed and as someone who had to replace an engine after only 70k, i will add 'bloody expensive'.

Post #777109 11th Jun 2019 8:16pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 10003

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Harry dog wrote:
... - can I pick your brains on the latest problem with my 2012 TDci...


Most likely the pipe from the turbo to the intercooler has ruptured, a fairly common problem.

Post #777142 11th Jun 2019 10:09pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 2523

Ireland 

Other manufacturers have recalled thousands if not millions of cars over a "potential" fault with airbags. This was because in the event of an accident you could get injured if the airbag didn't deploy correctly but this fault would not cause a crash.
Land Rover's faulty axle will cause an accident if it fails. There are no ifs or buts about it. Like everyone else I cannot understand the reason for their failure to address the issue. The number of vehicles involved must be miniscule by international standards.
I do not mind faults, even horrendous faults like this PROVIDED the manufacturer address them in a timely fashion when they come to light. That would be the mark of a good company in my view and would inspire confidence in their products.
Just wondered if the MOD had any issues with their vehicles. They would have the clout to get Land Rover to address the faults with their vehicles. Wonder if they did because if they did that should set a precedent for the rest of us. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai

Post #777167 11th Jun 2019 11:52pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 10003

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

The current military Landrovers all (as far as I know - certainly all the ones at my place of work) use the XD or Wolf chassis which has much stronger reinforced axle casings. I have not heard of any of these breaking, at least not under normal use.

If I was to replace my front axle, one of these is what I would try to get.

There are other NATO forces which use Pumas, but I don't know how different these are to a standard civvy one, unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to look that closely.

Don't forget that JLR seems to have introduced this axle fault circa 2007, presumably by some economising in the manufacturing process, I haven't heard of any similar failures on Td5 or earlier vehicles. The XD chassis are 300TDi era, when axles were properly welded.

It would be interesting to know how the late axles are actually manufactured, how do you actually manage to do such a critical weld so incompetently?

Post #777170 12th Jun 2019 12:13am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Harry dog



Member Since: 27 Oct 2016
Location: Farnham Surrey
Posts: 24

England 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey

The oil on the front grill turned out to have come directly from the intercooler which has developed a split on the seam.

Have ordered a new Allisport intercooler which hopefully will arrive today and get fitted on Friday.

Wonder what's next...….?!!!!

Post #777330 13th Jun 2019 10:57am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
noworries4x4



Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Newton Abbot Devon
Posts: 1162

England 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Firenze Red
Here we go again

Exactly two years to the day and 120thousand miles later my axle gave up the ghost again. My neighbour said my front tyre was scrubbing and i noted the axle was leaking again. My mig welding has lasted 2 years as i said so i got our professional coded welder in this week with his low hydrogen rods. A much better repair but it has to be noted my welding had not failed it was the crack getting worse and starting to run right round the axle joint. If everything is under control you are not going fast enough.

Every Day 12MY Defender 90 Mini Workshop and Tug
Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE
Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive
No Worries 4X4

Post #781039 10th Jul 2019 11:03pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Send e-mail Reply with quote
noworries4x4



Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Newton Abbot Devon
Posts: 1162

England 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Firenze Red


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge
 If everything is under control you are not going fast enough.

Every Day 12MY Defender 90 Mini Workshop and Tug
Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE
Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive
No Worries 4X4

Post #781040 10th Jul 2019 11:05pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Send e-mail Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 10003

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

I admire the classic field repair - front end hoisted by a crane or forklift and a ratchet strap holding the joint together! I bet that won't be possible with the new "Pretender".

It still appals me that JLR can be so blase and dismissive of this fault. I think that through this forum there have been more failures outside the range of at-risk VINs that within it, but still they deny there's a problem. If I was thinking about buying a new JLR vehicle (which is unlikely now) this shoddy attitude would certainly make me reconsider.

What's the total mileage on that one now? Your mileages always impress me (I used to think that mine was high)!

Post #781073 11th Jul 2019 9:32am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
noworries4x4



Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Newton Abbot Devon
Posts: 1162

England 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Firenze Red

335thou If everything is under control you are not going fast enough.

Every Day 12MY Defender 90 Mini Workshop and Tug
Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE
Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive
No Worries 4X4

Post #781086 11th Jul 2019 10:16am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Send e-mail Reply with quote
blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 10003

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Pretty good going, makes my 240,000 look feeble by comparison.

Post #781091 11th Jul 2019 11:06am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
noworries4x4



Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Newton Abbot Devon
Posts: 1162

England 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Firenze Red

At 639 wheel revs per mile (web tyre size calculator) that means the wheels, bearings and shafts have all done 213,106,500 revs If everything is under control you are not going fast enough.

Every Day 12MY Defender 90 Mini Workshop and Tug
Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE
Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive
No Worries 4X4

Post #781367 13th Jul 2019 7:33pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Send e-mail Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 4 of 5 <12345>
All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2019 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis