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Greadh



Member Since: 17 Feb 2016
Location: North West
Posts: 97

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black
1, 2013
2, 2.2
3, N - changed as precaution
4, 32k - changed as precaution


5, N - Standard
6, still running
Post #761003 27th Feb 2019 3:09pm
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Eduardo



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Región Metropolitana
Posts: 2108

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
1, vehicle year of manufacture: 2007
2, engine type 2.4 or 2.2: 2.4
3, is the Defender still running with the original output shaft? (Y/N): Yes
4, vehicle milage at first shaft failure, or current milage on the original shaft if still running: 280.000 km Eduardo

MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64'
MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo"

Click image to enlarge
Post #761050 27th Feb 2019 6:38pm
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foggydave



Member Since: 29 Nov 2012
Location: Midlands
Posts: 263

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Bonatti Grey
1 2014
2 2.2
3 Y
4 41,000

Which ever one goes first ie clutch or shaft I will probably change both

It would seem that quite a few have changed either the clutch or the shaft as a precaution.
When I bought the motor a year ago the drive was awful with big backlash problems due to very worn rear half shafts (now changed)
I would think the backlash problem ie kangarooing due to the half shafts would exacerbate the output shaft/clutch problems.
Post #761137 28th Feb 2019 9:17am
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R1200GS



Member Since: 12 Jul 2015
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 265

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Keswick Green
1.2016
2. 2.2
3. N
4. 16588

Just failed today, Ashcroft kit just ordered.
Post #764998 23rd Mar 2019 3:30pm
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Pete_110



Member Since: 07 Dec 2013
Location: Great Southern Land
Posts: 8

Australia 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Fuji White
1. 2013
2. 2.2
3. N
4. 59K

Adapter shaft changed out with the Ashcroft model as a precaution. Cog teeth on original not lubricated, were covered in rust, 'triangled' and at half height. Estimated 3-5K km life left.

Also swapped out centre diff for an Ashcroft ATB. Backlash 99 % gone 👍

Note: when my Local LR Dealership swapped out the gearbox at 23K km (U/S syncro on 2nd gear) they categorically stated they lubricated the stub shaft, as they had the kit.... what a load of bull ! (Slight rant over lol )

Cheers,

Pete
Post #765091 23rd Mar 2019 10:46pm
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Mbala



Member Since: 22 Jun 2013
Location: Limpopo - Mbala Private Camp
Posts: 4

South Africa 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Alpine White
1. 2011
2. 2.4
3. N
4. Shaft didn't fail I replaced it with an Ashcroft kit as a precaution when the clutch was done at 171k
5. Yes
6. Current mileage 172
Post #765171 24th Mar 2019 3:22pm
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Mike_E



Member Since: 13 Apr 2017
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 160

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Aintree Green
1. 2015
2. 2.2
3. N
4. Replaced under warranty at 42k miles. Pretty sloppy.
5. OEM past fitted unfortunately (LR warranty)
6. No.. only only done 300miles so far but drives much better
Post #765590 27th Mar 2019 5:45am
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
LandRoverAnorak wrote:
1. 2013
2. 2.2
3. Y
4. 39K

It's clunky though, so will be changed in the not too distant future.

Time for an update:

1. 2013
2. 2.2
3. N
4. 46k
5. Y
6. N/A

I had the output shaft changed today following investigations for a clunk at the rear. It's made a big difference to how it drives, taking out a lot of the jerkiness at low speeds and clonks when coming on and off the gas. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #768890 16th Apr 2019 9:11pm
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Dasher



Member Since: 12 Nov 2012
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 30

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black
1 2010
2 2.4
3 No
4 51,000
5 Replacement full gearbox under warranty (35.5 months). No Ashcroft Parts.
6 No idea where it is now, sold at 65,000. The 'box was replaced following a clutch replacement (springs - warranty). I think that it was output shaft but can't be certain. The fault was picked up on test driving the replacement clutch.

Generally on road use and light offroad use. Towed a caravan approx 4,000 miles per year.


1 2015
2 2.2
3 Y
4 38,000
5 NA
6 NA

Usage as above. I've got the 'van with me at the moment, 200 miles into the Lake District - no obvious slop or knock on take up of drive. Drivetrain has been noisy from new - now on its third rear diff. Seems to have sorted it (for now).
Post #769768 23rd Apr 2019 7:53pm
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RobKeay



Member Since: 19 Jul 2009
Location: Stafford
Posts: 1561

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
1 2014
2 2.2
3 Yes
4 75k
5 Ashcroft
6 All good at 110k

Used for all jobs. Towing, off roading has mud tyres fitted.
Post #775196 27th May 2019 4:19pm
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DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1342

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Time for an update of the results, prompted by talk on other threads.

Failure rate by Year.
- as expected late models, 2013 to 2016 are showing more failures as they reach more miles. Starting to catch up with the mid years.



Miles at failure.
-2.2 models are failing early, typically 10K to 55K miles. Even 2015/16 year with "blue paste" lubricant.
-2014 is standing out, with only 2 failures, both above 60K miles.
-2.4 models typically fail 25k to 90k miles, or continue much further.


Click image to enlarge


Still running chart.
-no late models yet showing high miles on the original shaft.


Click image to enlarge


Repeat failures.
Evidence continues to show, repeat failures with a standard shaft at similar miles.
- the shaft isn't to blame, this shows they are consistent over a period of time. There is another factor peculiar to the vehicle that is causing the problem.

Case 1, 25,000 and again at 57,000
Case 2, 23,000 and again at 56,000
Case 3, 13,000 again at 25,000 and again at 41,000
Case 4, 25,000 again at 60,000 and again at 90,000
Case 5, 30.000 , 50.000 and 70.000
Case 6, total 80,000 miles 3 failures, average 27,000 miles for each shaft (not included in the survey)
Post #775751 31st May 2019 9:37pm
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 421

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
"the shaft isn't to blame" - I'm just wondering, if the Ashcroft shafts fail alike.

Don't be so sure of that
Post #775754 31st May 2019 9:56pm
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Caterham



Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6260

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
could it be the adapter shaft casing putting the transfer and gear box out of alignment?
Post #775768 1st Jun 2019 7:55am
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DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1342

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Hi all,
The original aim of this survey was to understand the extent of the problem, to help people make a decision when repairing a vehicle or predict when a failure was most likely to happen. With the help of everyone that took part, we have done that. The worrying ‘noise’ and rumours on forums, in the magazines and between friends can be replaced with some established statistics. Things we have proven:

1) The problem existed in every year of production from 2007 to 2016. It was never fixed.

2) Of the people that responded to the survey, 48% have had a failure or changed the shaft due to wear concerns.

3) Failure rates by year and mileage, as in the charts above.

4) Repeat failures at similar miles.

5) Under ideal conditions the original shaft can last for high miles. 14% of replies said it did more than 100,000 miles, in 1 case 240,000.

I’m satisfied with this, we never set out to prove where the problem is and how to fix it permanently. JLR certainly didn’t achieve any more than this with all of their time, money and resources.

The Ashcroft Transmissions kit remains the only commercially available alternative to original parts. While we haven’t proven anything about that kit, they have an impressive claim that out 2300 sold, they have had none returned for spline wear.

The general consensus of opinion seems to be, there is an alignment problem in the driveline causing the wear and failure. This would be very expensive to investigate and is something we will never get to the bottom of. Before discussing alignment theories and why we can’t prove where it originates, we should be happy with what we have achieved over the last year.

Thanks to all that took time to respond.
Post #775918 2nd Jun 2019 4:03pm
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DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1342

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Julie wrote:
"the shaft isn't to blame" - I'm just wondering, if the Ashcroft shafts fail alike.

Don't be so sure of that


“the shaft isn’t to blame” – to explain my reasoning for this statement, the shaft will last >100,000 miles in favourable conditions (14% of survey replies). It has also proven to be remarkably consistent over a period of 6 to 8 years, multiple failures at consistent miles. Therefore, it should be consistently capable of >100,000 miles in good conditions.

If the shaft fails at less than that, the problem originates elsewhere. The failure is caused by another component, or, it’s a failure in the design of the system to take into account all possibilities. This brings us back to alignment, if the system has to cope with misalignment, it should have been designed with a flexible or lubricated joint.

Only time will tell if a lubricated joint fixes the problem 100%.
Post #775919 2nd Jun 2019 4:05pm
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