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Huttopia



Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1964

United Kingdom 
First MOT - issue with class
The place I take the cars for an MOT has my 110 in today (2015 Heritage), but has called saying as it is over 3t it is Class 7 and they are only authorised up to class 4. Anyone had the same problem? Is that the correct classification? I've not had this problem before and this is 110 number 4.
Post #745688 14th Dec 2018 4:15pm
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discomog



Member Since: 09 May 2015
Location: Notts/Lincs Border
Posts: 2494

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
My 2015 90 went through MOT with no problems at Duckworth's Market Rasen, but then being a main dealer I wouldn't have expected anything else. Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S
Morgan Plus 8
Post #745695 14th Dec 2018 4:50pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
Being a Heritage, does that mean it is a 7 seat Station Wagon? If it is, I would expect it to be a passenger car and be Class 4. The weight limit of 3t is applicable to goods vehicles.

If it is a double cab or a Utility maybe it's different? I thought they were classed a dual purpose vehicles, which would also be Class 4 MOT.

https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/mot-test-fees 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #745698 14th Dec 2018 5:05pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
It's a very common misconception amongst MOT testers, but since legally it is a Dual Purpose Vehicle it should have a class 4 MOT.

I had a similar problem and ended up showing the tester the extensive correspondenceI have had with DVSA on the subject. I have also posted chapter and verse on this subject on this forum in the past, which you should be able to find by using the search facility.

See here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic26921-49.html

By the way, it is not a passenger vehicle, and it is not a goods vehicle, in law it is a Dual Purpose Vehicle, a fact which has many generally good consequences.


Last edited by blackwolf on 14th Dec 2018 7:00pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #745707 14th Dec 2018 5:31pm
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landy andy



Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5408

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver
It’s not over 3t.

A Discovery 3 or 4 is.
Post #745718 14th Dec 2018 6:31pm
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Huttopia



Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1964

United Kingdom 
Thanks Blackwolf, much appreciated.

Huttopia
Post #745732 14th Dec 2018 7:16pm
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Tilly



Member Since: 04 May 2016
Location: Grimsby
Posts: 36

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Indus Silver
I had this last year. Local garage said they couldn’t do it after I had left it with them but said they will take it somewhere they know can do class 7 tests. I let them do what they needed to do.

Anyway when I collected it, looking over the MOT paper, it is down as class 4. Thud
Iirc, it was down to the weight why they couldn’t test it?.
Post #745769 15th Dec 2018 7:45am
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hafman



Member Since: 28 Mar 2017
Location: W Sussex
Posts: 81

United Kingdom 
Some MOT garages don't have ramps strong enough to take 3 tonne plus cars.
Post #745779 15th Dec 2018 9:36am
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landy andy



Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5408

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver
Just take it to someone who knows what they are doing. Next they will test the hand brake wrong or generally getting confused about a transmission brake.
Post #745792 15th Dec 2018 10:06am
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ARC99



Member Since: 19 Feb 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 1831

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Cairns Blue
I the tester cannot read. The mass in service for my 2008 110USW on the V5C is 2075 kg the max is shown as 3050kg.


Someone on this forum brought up the same problem some years ago and caused a stir, I even questioned the Indie that has looked after my Land Rovers fort the last 25 plus years, her pointed out that some people just cannot read properly or just don't understand. Don't make old people mad.
We don't like being old in the first place,
so it doesn't take much to Censored us off.

Richard
Post #745797 15th Dec 2018 10:34am
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Huttopia



Member Since: 23 Feb 2016
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1964

United Kingdom 
I’m currently at a different garage waiting for an MoT to be done on the 110 and funnily enough it will be done as a class 4 dual purpose vehicle. Assuming they actually start the test. Appointment at 11.00, so far it has just been driven into the bay. I suspect the boss man is on holiday, it’s like watching a film in slow motion.
Post #749120 4th Jan 2019 11:36am
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OsloBlue



Member Since: 14 Jul 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 822

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
I thought the GVW - the 1st no in vin includes fuel and all passenger seats occupied (I wonder what mass they consider occupied) but this is not the kerb/curb weight as that will be an unladen vehicle.

My GVW is 2950 KG but the kerb/curb wight is 2055kg empty

2950kg - 2055kg = 895 kg of load

93l tank @ 0.832kg/l = 77 kg

895kg - 77kg = 818 kg passenger capacity weight

818kg / 6.35 (conversion from kg to stone)= 128.8 stone

Providing you have a 9 seater that allows a mixture of passengers with a mean mass off 14 stone.

Curious that they can’t tell GVW from In service/curb/kerb weight. I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/
Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html
Post #749143 4th Jan 2019 12:18pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
There is a significant (legally very significant) difference between 'unladen weight' and 'kerb weight' (the latter now more commonly referred to as 'mass in service').

Unfortunately (1) there in no legal requirement for manufacturers to state the legal unladen weight of a vehicle, (2) there is no legal definition of the term 'kerb weight' and consequently it is left to the manufacturer to decide what additional weights above the ULW are included, and (3) the ULW is not recorded on any official database or document. "Mass In Service" is now recorded but historically was not, so isn't for many vehicles. It also has no relevence as far as C&U regs etc are concerned.

Since the ULW (together with the GVW) is the legal basis for determining the legal classification of the vehicle, the MOT test class of the vehicle, and consequently the maximum speed limit and the tachograph/driver's hour status of the vehicle, this situation is somewhat unsatisfactory.

Generally the term "unladen weight" means the weight of the empty and unladen vehicle, with no fuel, no tools/spares/spare wheel or othr loose parts. The term "kerb weight" is the unladen weight plus the weight of a driver, tankfull of fuel, plus the tools/spares/spare wheel etc routinely carried, but with no payload.

Less clear in the case of vehicles like ours is how things like expedition racks, winches, spare wheel carriers, etc, fit in. As a general rule I suspect that if it is bolted on it counts towards "unladen", if not then "kerb". I am however not aware of any legal ruling or precedent to support this view.
Post #749168 4th Jan 2019 1:33pm
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OsloBlue



Member Since: 14 Jul 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 822

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
Very enlightening blacksheep

This definition then may throws out my calculations as I don’t know whether it is an ULW or kerb/curb weight.

I still find it strange that they would class it is in a class but is still under the 3 tonne mass. Mind you I wouldn’t be surprised if some Luton box or high top overhead vans are under 3 tonne I'm on IG: https://www.instagram.com/osloblue42/
Current: TD5 '110 "Lucinda" Thread here: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62562.html
Post #749171 4th Jan 2019 2:16pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
"Blacksheep"! Rolling with laughter

If your figures are from JLR they'll be kerb weight and include a 70kg driver and full (or 90% full) fuel tank.

You'll find most light vans are under 3.5 tonnes GVW so that they don't require a cat C1 or C license.

An N1 Defender would be a Class 7 MOT test if it wasn't a 'dual-purpose vehicle'. It is its DPV status that makes it Class 4.
Post #749175 4th Jan 2019 2:47pm
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