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chopdogs

Member Since: 10 Mar 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 108

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

Fitting of Synthetic Rope

Hi All

Quick question for you. I'm replacing the wire on my winch with synthetic rope.

Do I need to tension it when fitting - as you would with wire?

Warn say "The life of a wire rope is directly related to the use and care it receives. During its first use, a new wire rope must be spooled onto its drum under a load of at least 1000 lbs. (454 kgs)."

Is this the same for synthetic rope?

Thanks

22nd Dec 2011 4:08pm

ken

Member Since: 18 Aug 2009
Location: Banging Birds with my bitches !!
Posts: 4328

There are many views on this

First if you have not get rid of your roller fairlead

I spool in without load all neat and tidy but I always pull out to full (last wraps) before recovery most say donot worry out a tidy wind in this is why sythn ropes are great for the hidden installs

there will be many views on this

22nd Dec 2011 4:41pm

chopdogs

Member Since: 10 Mar 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 108

Thanks Ken

Fairlead will be replaced by a hawse

The excerpt from the Warn manual was specifically referencing the first time the wire is spooled onto the drum - basically saying that when first fitting the wire it needs to be under considerable tension.

Is this also true of synthetic rope?

22nd Dec 2011 5:18pm

leeds

Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8582

As Ken says there will be many different views on this subject.

A few ideas worth considering. You need to keep at least the last five if not 8-10 turns of the rope on the drum. Either have count down markers on your rope or use a rope keeper to prevent last turns being spooled out. Under free spool conditions I have seen a synthetic rope pulled off its retaining ferrule.

Yes synthetic ropes should be spooled on tidily however in a different way to wire rope. Bottom layer goes on as per wire rope, next layer goes on at about 15 degrees to the normal direction, the following layer goes on at about 15 degrees to the other side of the normal.

Why?

If you spool on in the conventional manner then when you deploy the rope and spool back on under load it is possible for the top layer of synthetic rope to bury itself in the layers underneath. To say it can be awkward to redply rope is an understatement. I have seen where the winch rope will not free spool out but had to be pulled out by a motor as rope was so tightly buried.

If the layer underneath is at an angle the top layer will not bed itself down.

Hope that makes sense.

Used with sense synthetic ropes are good, however do not believe the marketing hype that synthetic ropes do not fly when they break. YES they can fly, maybe not as dangerous as a steel rope but I would not want a flying synthetic rope anywhere near my eyes.

Treat them as dangerous as a steel rope, i.e. keep unnecessary people out of the danger zone. Danger zone is two circles centred on winch and anchor with a radius equal to length of rope paid out. Keep all unnecessary people out of that area.

Treat ANY recovery operation as a dangerous event and use all precautions. Just because something is SAFER it does not make it SAFE.

Brendan

22nd Dec 2011 5:35pm

Lookers Park Royal

Member Since: 19 Jun 2008
Location: London
Posts: 338

leeds wrote:
Yes synthetic ropes should be spooled on tidily however in a different way to wire rope. Bottom layer goes on as per wire rope, next layer goes on at about 15 degrees to the normal direction, the following layer goes on at about 15 degrees to the other side of the normal.

Why?

If you spool on in the conventional manner then when you deploy the rope and spool back on under load it is possible for the top layer of synthetic rope to bury itself in the layers underneath. To say it can be awkward to redply rope is an understatement. I have seen where the winch rope will not free spool out but had to be pulled out by a motor as rope was so tightly buried.

I never knew that, however if makes perfect sense, AND I had the exact problem you have outlined whilst helping someone free-spool a synth rope which had been spooled in the same way as a wire rope is usually spooled................ it was a nightmare!

James

22nd Dec 2011 5:50pm

leeds

Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8582

It does take slightly longer to do but the slightly longer time taken to spool the synthetic neatly and correctly can be very well worth while when you need to use the winch, because then it will be dark/muddy/raining/tired etc etc

Brendan

22nd Dec 2011 6:01pm

walfy

Member Since: 29 Aug 2007
Location: Frome
Posts: 2702

The 15 deg angle is not necessary if you put the rope on under tension. And that means winch in the full length of the rope dragging the car along, not all wheels locked up but with the brakes acting on the disks. It should make the winch work a bit, you'll know this by the sound of the motor. Only pull off exactly how much you need for the recovery and then all will be fine and you won't have the upper layer biting into the lower layer. 110 D250 SE HT
110 USW SOLD
RRE HSE Dynamic Gone, wife killed it
VOLVO XC60 R Dynamic with some toys

Polaris RZR 900XP SOLD

22nd Dec 2011 6:03pm

chopdogs

Member Since: 10 Mar 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 108

Thnak Brendan - very sound advice!

Does it need to be under load during the first ever spooling (ie when installing)?

22nd Dec 2011 6:04pm

chopdogs

Member Since: 10 Mar 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 108

Deleted - double post

22nd Dec 2011 6:04pm

chopdogs

Member Since: 10 Mar 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 108

Thanks Walfy - our posts crossed

I'll do that!

22nd Dec 2011 6:07pm

v8steve

Member Since: 18 Apr 2011
Location: dumfries scotland
Posts: 195

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Rimini Red

have had a couple of syn ropes snap on challenges cheap one a bit of flying about but now't to worry about.
quality rope dropped straight down no dramma at all.
i have heard about the15 degrees/overlap thing. but how are you supposed to do that with 2 ton plus strain on the rope?
just put in on under tension from day one. it may dig down sometimes but a small price to pay for the safety and eases of handling.

merry crimbo to all 110 xs s/wagon
s3 swb soft top

22nd Dec 2011 9:57pm

BigMike

Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2253

walfy wrote:
The 15 deg angle is not necessary if you put the rope on under tension. And that means winch in the full length of the rope dragging the car along, not all wheels locked up but with the brakes acting on the disks. It should make the winch work a bit, you'll know this by the sound of the motor. Only pull off exactly how much you need for the recovery and then all will be fine and you won't have the upper layer biting into the lower layer.

But then you have the issue that the pulling power of the winch is hugely reduced the more layers of rope you have on it. You get the max pull from the rope on the first layer. When you reach the second you've lost around 30% of the pulling power, then same again on the third layer.

What Brendan said is absolutely right re the angled turns, but I do agree with you that if the rope is under tension when it's rolling in, it's less likely to 'cut" through to the lower layers.

22nd Dec 2011 10:08pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8338

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

BigMike wrote:
walfy wrote:
The 15 deg angle is not necessary if you put the rope on under tension. And that means winch in the full length of the rope dragging the car along, not all wheels locked up but with the brakes acting on the disks. It should make the winch work a bit, you'll know this by the sound of the motor. Only pull off exactly how much you need for the recovery and then all will be fine and you won't have the upper layer biting into the lower layer.

But then you have the issue that the pulling power of the winch is hugely reduced the more layers of rope you have on it. You get the max pull from the rope on the first layer. When you reach the second you've lost around 30% of the pulling power, then same again on the third layer.

What Brendan said is absolutely right re the angled turns, but I do agree with you that if the rope is under tension when it's rolling in, it's less likely to 'cut" through to the lower layers.

i agree totally with Walfy and have probably had more winch use then most with synthetic over the years.

If its on under load then it wont bite in.

If you put it on without load, add some angles to stop if biting through.

Only pull off the amount of rope you need as Walfy says then there will be no slack going back on the drum to cause a potential 'bite through' later.

you are correct you loose approx 1000lb of pull for every layer on a drum, hence extended and narrower drums.

I always fit mine under tension, drag weight of the vehicle with a little braking works fine. Cheers

James
110 2010 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

22nd Dec 2011 11:07pm

brainscott

Member Since: 11 Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 1

wire rope

Hey there..!! Nice stuff..!! Thank you for sharing it with us.
___________________________________
wire rope

11th Feb 2012 1:06pm

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