 | Home > For Sale & Wanted > Wanted: defender snow wing cover |
 
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| ibexman Member Since: 13 Dec 2008 Location: Essex Posts: 2963  
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I agree IMHO entreq gear is very expensive ie £550 steering guard thats winch money
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6th Dec 2011 11:08am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8582
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It seems my rant has stirred up a hornets nest!
We seem to have some budding engineers/manufacturers on here
I tell you what since it is so easy to do I will take 100 units of you at £30 a piece, made in stainless steel to the same quality and finish as the Entreq ones. Let's face it, it is only a bent piece of metal! 
Second hand ali ones are sold at £60! It is quite amazing really what people think is reasonable to pay for gear. A few examples, One manufacturer charges £345 for an item, someone is prepared to do same item (I will not same same quality ) for £280
Now lets look at figures £345 includes VAT, take off VAT and that is £287.50 For this you will have statutory rights made by a company who will guarantee their work, pays business rates, product insurance etc, etc Then you have someone charging £280, made in garage, paying no business rates, insurance etc etc. Now which one is actually overcharging? Then you get people who willing pays 50% over the odds for an item on ebay then wait a couple of weeks to get one from direct source. 
Yes you can buy 12v winches for £500, in fact you can get them for a couple of hundred quid. Also good ones can cost £1,500. Now would I stick a £200 winch on front of my vehicle Like a lot of things there is a hell of a range of quality and prices!
Peoples, needs, wants and budget are different Just accept that fact. If items are overpriced for their quality/fit for purpose etc they will not sell If things are fit for purpose, made to a good specification, i.e. a premium product they will commard a higher price. IF you think that these items are overpriced, why not make some to same specification/quality and make some yourself. There is a business opportunity out there for you, otherwise..................... Brendan |
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6th Dec 2011 3:13pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11327
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There's a lot of truth in all of that but I don't necessarily think it all applies to this snow cover. Ultimately, it's a fairly simple metal pressing that's designed to keep snow out of a vent. You're not going to trust your life to it, recover your vehicle from it or rely on it to get you home in the face of adversity, so just how much extra quality do you need?
The original military version is made of steel, so it's very robust, and is zinc passivated, so it won't rust. They can be bought new for £60 and, given that mil. spec. stuff is rarely cheap in the first place, it's really difficult to see why the Entreq version is double the price. The only difference appears to be that it's made of stainless steel, which is nice but arguably overkill for the application. Once painted black, they all look the same anyway. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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6th Dec 2011 4:46pm |
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| farmer giles Member Since: 09 Feb 2011 Location: worcestershire Posts: 1299 
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i have to agree with leeds and t1g up.
the financial premium goes on better quality raw materials, better quality finishing and any profits usually get ploughed back into R+D on new products. i would expect to find products cheaper than mantec, warn, safety devices etc but i would rather have the extra quality and company back up piece of mind that these companies can offer when i purchase their products. there is a lot of false economy out there, and i'm not just talking about the bankers! |
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6th Dec 2011 4:48pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11327
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Yeah, but for a snow guard? Do you expect it fail and have to rely on a warranty? Does it perhaps need some sort of technical back-up? Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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6th Dec 2011 4:52pm |
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101  
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maybe he's laid off some R&D costs onto the snow gaurd in order to make other products cheaper? maybe he's got the price wrong...but thats what HE wants to sell it for?
Why do WE pay a premium for some 60 year old designed van engined, over priced 4x4.....LR have made there money over and over churning out the defender since 1984...minimal upgrades, maximum profit! It all about WANTS not NEEDS...you don't NEED a snow cover, i've never owned one...when landrover test they don't fit them.... If you can't afford the asking price then so be it... |
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6th Dec 2011 5:56pm |
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| Bobble Member Since: 21 Aug 2011 Location: Hampshire Posts: 223
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Hmmm, "quality/fit for purpose".....on something with no moving parts, no electrical input and no safety rating.
Excuse me if I stick to eBay for this sort of thing. Nice though a lot of Entreq stuff is, as Anorak says, this particular item is just a vent cover, so does it really need "Entreqing" in the first place, with associated premium attached? No, it doesn't. Spend where you need to spend, and wing top vent covers ain't it. And I'm not a budding engineer thanks, I'm a qualified one. |
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6th Dec 2011 5:57pm |
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| BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253
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I agree with Brendan..to a point.
The Entreq stuff just looks prettier and is a lot more expensive. Defender Gucci, if you will. If that's your bag then fine, but there are products equally good for less money, just more utilitarian looking. I REALLY don't get the Entreq steering guard for example. It's a product designed to get knocked and smacked, there is no more benefit with that one than a southdown one, or a rebel one. As long as the mounting points are sturdy and it's thick enough that's fine. Would you buy a large piece of metal for 500 quid (or whatever it is) then proceed to smack it around on rocks? Probably not. You'd get the cheaper one and smack that around. Unless of course it's for posing with, which is a different thing entirely, but steering guards are not needed on the M6 and the odd gravel track, let's be honest. And Goodwinch TDS are only a smidge over 300 quid and are damn good products. Something doesn't have to be expensive to work - more £ does not always equal better. |
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6th Dec 2011 6:44pm |
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| ibexman Member Since: 13 Dec 2008 Location: Essex Posts: 2963
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Well Said BIG MIKE
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6th Dec 2011 6:52pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8582
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I have always argued that people should distinguish between needs and wants and then there is there own personal budget.
They might not need a particular item, may want it, may be able to afford it. So who am I to say they should not have one? Some people want large diameter rims, low profile tyres and lowered suspension on their Defenders. Personally I do not see why, do not think it does the Defender any good but at the end of the day it is not my opinion which counts. Should people buy on price alone? Some people will. Good luck to them. Today we sold some gear. The alternative was a lot cheaper and personally I thought we had lost the sale due to price. Gave the customer full information on product we supplied. He went away, asked more questions on the alternative, come back and paid 3.4 times the alternative price. On the face of it they did the same job, but he decided the ones we offered was better. About £110 better per item! As for military snow covers new costing £60 The chances are that they cost a darn sight more then £60. Military surplus goods may or may not be issued goods,(i.e. used/second hand) they will be old and they are sold on the civilian market at a fraction of the cost of new.
Engineers. Hmm that wonderful ubiquitous term which covers so many different areas of expertise, civil, mechanical, structural,electrical etc etc. According to our D2 engineer it is just a bent bit of rectangular metal! Some engineers/manufacturers (for the 4x4 aftermarket) looked at the photo and said that it was a nice bit of 'incremental folding' and well made. Don't ask me to explain incremental folding as I would be guessing Another apprentice trained 'engineer' (designs and makes moulds for plastic injection machines) took a good look at some of the Entreq gear and appreciated the quality of them. Mike you have commented how non professional photographers have made it awkward for professional photographers to make a living these days. You also recommend Southdown steering and tank guards. Now I have some Southdown gear on our red 110 and it is good gear I suggest that you look at their website HERE They have not made the 'heavy metal' gear for a few years and I understand they have sold off the heavier equipment associated with that side of the operation. Why? Joe Bloggs knocking off their designs, using knocked off material and throwing 'Southdown type' gear on ebay for a fraction of the real price. Often selling 'Southdown type' gear for less then it would cost Southdown for raw materials.
Sounds familiar Mike? So will say again Quality made items will cost more! You do not have to buy it but don't knock well made items just because it costs more then what you want to pay. As I found out today quality items will sell in preference to inferior items if customer gets the right information even if they are three times the cost! Personally I will not fit what I consider to be inferior items to our vehicles. Yes I do use our vehicles on a little bit more then motorways and gravel tracks!
Brendan |
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6th Dec 2011 8:54pm |
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| Bobble Member Since: 21 Aug 2011 Location: Hampshire Posts: 223
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I think you might be missing the point Brendan.
Can quality and finish really affect something so very simple? Is it really necessary to over-engineer such a rudimentary item? What next? Entreq mudflaps? You've said yourself some people like certain brands as it adds a bit of bling and that's exactly what's happening here. The assumption is that because it's come from a certain supplier it must be better and therefore must be worth the extra dosh. And so what if an ex-military item is old and second hand? On something like this age it's largely irrelevant. It doesn't wear out with use, it doesn't have a finite number of cycles.....it's a static object, so save for the effect of weather, a five year old one will be as near as damn it the same as a five day old one. Last edited by Bobble on 7th Dec 2011 12:46am. Edited 1 time in total |
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6th Dec 2011 9:11pm |
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| BigMike Member Since: 13 Jul 2010 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2253
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Sorry Brendan I don't agree with your analogy at all. A steering guard is a steering guard is a steering guard. If a person WANTS to spend 500 quid on one that's fine with me, but it does not make it better than a 100 pound one - they do the same task, one is not "better" than the other except in aesthetics. The technical elements in photography such as ensuring your histogram is correct for print purposes is just not comparable.
i also said that it is not always the case that more money = better, and that's true. Ultimately depends on the product because in many cases, more money IS better. I was specially talking about steering guards, but the same would apply to things like shackles, plasma etc. If something looks too cheap, it will be for a reason - it's about common sense. The lights we talked about for example. The vision x lights are great, hella spots don't come close, but a big price difference. |
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7th Dec 2011 12:28am |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10383
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This is all very interesting....
It reminds me of the "watch" debate....they all tell the time, yet I'm sure we are not all reading this with Casio digital timepieces on. |
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7th Dec 2011 1:10am |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443 
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Timex for me
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7th Dec 2011 1:23am |
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