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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 477

United Kingdom 
I don't know what Inoes' sales targets were/are for the UK. I can't find any sales figures, but How Many Left says over 1300 registered in the UK up until end of Q3 last year:



Click image to enlarge


So one would assume as we are now part way through Q1 2024 that more than this exist in the UK. Some likely to be demonstrators, but I'd think most would be "sold" vehicles.

By comparison it looks like Jeep only shifted (registered) 246 Wranglers for 2023 (to Q3) and only 491 for all of 2022.



Click image to enlarge


On this basis, for an expensive, premium bespoke non mass market vehicle, I'd have thought sales look reasonably healthy. No idea about the rest of the world, but I'd guess a similar or better story. There certainly is no shortage of Grenadier content on YouTube from pretty much any and all regions.

And to give a little more perspective. Lotus across all their models only registerd 1100 vehicles for 2023 (to Q3), meaning Ineos are probably selling more vehicles than Lotus does. Another small scale car maker of expensive, premium bespoke vehicles.
Post #1023277 1st Feb 2024 10:54pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4360

Ireland 
lightning wrote:
Don't forget the Grenadier was originally priced around £15,000 cheaper when it first came out.

So any 2022 Grenadier on sale at around £50,000 is close to what the original owner paid for it. When l placed my order for a five seat Utility with a few options it was £53,000. Sadly l had to cancel but now the same vehicle is £68,000

I suppose their good intentions of constructing a vehicle with quality parts turned out to be a more expensive exercise than they envisioned. I suppose that is why Land Rover kept the Defender as it was as experience told them it would cost more than what people would pay. Great to hear people say axle locking etc should be standard on the Defender but it probably began pricing it out of peoples budgets. If you were to spec a Defender up with after market parts to the Grenadier spec I wonder what it would cost. I was very happy with the Defender and if axle locking had been an option I would not have ordered them as I would not need them. I do have a Puma with the dodgy welds which should not be. The Grenadier seems to be a fine vehicle and I do wonder how such an experienced business man as Mr Ratcliffe under estimated the price he would need to charge per vehicle. I suppose he had never built a car before. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #1023280 1st Feb 2024 11:58pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3982

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
The only thing to bear in mind with the sales figures is that the initial demand will be artificially high as they had 2 or 3 years of canvassing for pre-orders to build demand. So I think yr1 will be artificially high then sales will settle down. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #1023283 2nd Feb 2024 7:04am
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3311

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
Also worth noting, by their own admission, Lotus had a torrid year of sales last year.

I see Lotus and Ineos as being a similar producer of niche cars, albeit completely styles of vehicles.
Post #1023287 2nd Feb 2024 8:05am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16692

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
spudfan wrote:
... I do wonder how such an experienced business man as Mr Ratcliffe under estimated the price he would need to charge per vehicle. I suppose he had never built a car before.


Do not forget also that the world changed in an unprecedent and wholly unpredicted way during the period from concept to launch of the Grenadier. In particular COVID-19 had far reaching effects not only on the price of everything but also on attitudes within the market.

Combine world events with an extremely niche (and widely misunderstood) vehicle and I am surprised it all went as well as it did.
Post #1023289 2nd Feb 2024 8:25am
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lightning



Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: Stockport
Posts: 2082

United Kingdom 
Rashers wrote:
Also worth noting, by their own admission, Lotus had a torrid year of sales last year.

I see Lotus and Ineos as being a similar producer of niche cars, albeit completely styles of vehicles.


Lotus made a mistake when they stopped making the Elise, which at well under £40,000 was a car normal people could conceivably aspire to, and it was cheap to run as well.
Now their cheapest car is £65,000 which is out of reach for most people.
Post #1023355 2nd Feb 2024 6:11pm
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whiterdesign



Member Since: 10 Jun 2021
Location: Preston
Posts: 239

United Kingdom 
Ineos uk are limited in the number of vehicles they can sell in the UK due to emissions. it is approx 200 per dealer per year which equates to about 5000 vehicles. 110 XS 250 in Gondwana Stone, Cold climate pack and towbar
Post #1023390 3rd Feb 2024 12:32am
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steveww



Member Since: 05 Jan 2022
Location: Uppingham
Posts: 490

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Bronze Green
Just had a test drive in a Field Master diesel.

The steering is a bit strange at first but you soon get used to it. The A pillar blind spot is not that bad, similar to a Velar I used to have. It rides very well over pot holed B roads and is quiet at speed on A roads. I did not get chance to go off road. The symbols on the main controls are a bit small and difficult see on the move. However, being physical controls and not a **** touch screen, familiarity would soon negate that.

When the rear seats are folded down the full load space is not flat and there are other lumps and dumps that would make packing for a trip challenging. Additionally the height of the load bay is not as tall as the Defender, this would make sitting inside less comfortable.

Now the elephant in the room, the lump in the drivers footwell. For me this would be a right pain in the knee on a long drive. I could not fold my foot across as this would prevent me from using the bake pedal. There is just no where for your left foot to go except perched on top of the bump.

I have a longer test drive booked to see how I get on during s long trip but I'm not confident.
Post #1024117 9th Feb 2024 5:16pm
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Hairy Dan



Member Since: 25 Apr 2013
Location: NW Durham
Posts: 1293

United Kingdom 1998 Defender 90 V8 Petrol 50th Auto Chawton White
That intrusion into the footwell was one of the biggest reasons that I didn't progress any further with my possible order. I have various metal pins, plates and self tappers in my spine and left leg and there is just nowhere to put my leg, so this along with the steering really made it a no go for me. I did like the vehicle and things like all the connectors being there for ancillaries on the roof etc were great but the driving position wasn't suitable.

We did have a brand new one out green lanning with us at the back end of last year and we encountered some teething problems with it, the car unfortunately slipped into a ditch and when the owner couldn't manage to extract himself we had to winch it out. Once it was out we couldn't get the diff locks to disengage, no matter how far we drove it backwards or forwards they wouldn't disengage, the owner was about to arrange for the AA to collect it when we thought about jacking it up and letting the wheels spin freely just in case there was some transmission wind up. This seemed to cure the problem and the diff locks disengaged, luckily the owner was a long time Land Rover owner so was used to teething problems! Cheers Ian
--------------------
22MY Defender 110 D200 SE, Fuji White.
Kielder 4x4 Safari
Instagram @defender_v8
Post #1024129 9th Feb 2024 7:51pm
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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 477

United Kingdom 
I know teething issues can be a pain, but lets face some reality here. EVERY manufacture has teething issues with a new model. Let alone a new model from a new manufacture that has never built a car before!

Ultimately Land Rover have been building 4x4s for what, 76 years and they still can't get it right first time out (i.e. recent recalls on RR models.....).
Post #1024151 9th Feb 2024 9:46pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4360

Ireland 
This is taken from the AULRO forum.
Now that does look like a Real Defender with a dent.Thumbs Up

Click image to enlarge
 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #1024815 15th Feb 2024 6:17pm
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RDR



Member Since: 27 Apr 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 551

United Kingdom 
I was quite excited about the grenadier and almost certain i would buy one until the footwell issue surfaced, we took a trip to a dealer and as soon as i climbed in it was a No. I'm 6'5" with back problems leg positioning is important to me and no way could i get comfy. Was a bit gutted with that only alternate to JLR had slipped away so soon! 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE
RR MY23 HSE PHEV
D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold
D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold
D4 MY12 HSE - Gone
D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
Post #1024859 16th Feb 2024 9:39am
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4360

Ireland 
If INEOS decided things were not working out financially with the Grenadier and took the decision to stop producing it, prices of existing vehicles would rocket upwards! 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #1025020 17th Feb 2024 5:53pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3311

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
I'm not sure they would, spudfan, well not in the first instance.

For the price to increase, there needs to be a 'following' of persons wanting something they can't get. Demand for the vehicle has to outstrip demand. This was Seen after JLR ceased production of the last Defender.

I'm just not sure whether today, those people would be out there to pay over the odds for a vehicle like the Grenadier?

Now, in years to come, it may be that prices for these vehicles could increase because of their rarity. Or they might not.

I just don't think there are enough people out there in that category. And this might also be a problem for Ineos, that because the vehicle is so niche, people who want them, buy one, and then you struggle to find buyers.

Any reason why you think that Ineos may pull the plug on the Grenadier, spudfan? Do you think trying to fix the mess the Glazziers have made at Old Trafford, might be taking too much of Jim's spare time? Laughing
Post #1025027 17th Feb 2024 6:28pm
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4360

Ireland 
Not really a football fan but I think there more of a chance of the date and exact time of the initial start of the BIG BANG that kicked off the universe being figured out than there is of figuring out what's wrong at Manchester United. I think Mr Jim should have started his Manchester United plan when he was in his 20's not now. Don't think Jim will ever see MU sorted Whistle 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #1025053 18th Feb 2024 12:07am
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