 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Emissions Test Failed on Dutch MOT equivalent - HELP |
 
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 1757  
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It’s been an interesting read.
What has been established is the vehicle, for whatever reason, is equipped with a ROW cat , not an EU /UK spec DPF. This raises several questions. Is the vehicle operating within the ROW emissions specifications? Checking out the Australian forums such as AULRO may provide insight. If not and the fault is identified and rectified would that still meet the Netherlands emissions spec. Are you able to register and drive a ROW spec 2.2 puma on public roads in the EU ? I think the answer is no Can you covert a ROW spec 2.2 puma to meet EU emission regulations? I expect you can. Will require DPF downpipe, dpf differential pressure sensor plus pipes and wiring , remap of ECU to cater for the DPF, I.e EU map. All will cost a fair bit, but hardware may be available as used items. If you do convert to DPF, will that raise any issues with authorities, or will they not notice if your vehicle passes emissions tests? Given you have been driving it to date and no issues with authorities has come up then as long as it passes tests with new DPF etc fitted I doubt it will be a problem. |
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12th May 2023 1:40pm |
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| BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63 
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Quite honestly I don't think the conclusion is that my vehicle has somehow appeared in Europe and slipped through the cracks.
Having run a CarVeritcal check in the past it was clearly registered in NL original back in late 2014 (so presumably initial registration) and then the history disappears for a bit when I believe it was taken to germany until 2021 when it was brought back to NL when I bought it from a dealer. It has also been to 2 different official Land Rover dealers in my ownership - once in NL and once in France and did not raise any issues or red flags. Further given there is clearly a CAT only Downpipe available for the 2.2 which also references the EU4 categorisation (along with a DPF+CAT downpipe which refers to EU5) it also points to the fact that at some stage they were delivered in Europe with a Cat only downpipe for whatever reason. Why does it seem to be a 'ROW' vehicle? I dont yet know however my next investigation is to take a look at other VIN's for the PUMA in NL and Germany (assuming I can find some online) and see if perhaps there was a time when the ROW spec was being delivered for whatever reason! |
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12th May 2023 2:12pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 421  
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Mine is always at 0.0 - PM not mesurable. And I can also test it at 0.8 (le process verbal était quand même favorable puisque le contrôleur à changé son profil en 2,4 litre...) And after some days of trial the tail pipe is as black as on a ROW Defender With that DPF you can easily influence any pollution test. |
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12th May 2023 8:17pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 421
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This isn't strange at all. If you move to a EU country you are allowed to register your private car - even if it is not conform to European standards. AFAIK the last EURO2 Defenders have been MY2013 MY2014 is EURO4 or EURO5 For any Defender with a VIN starting on SAL... If you move outside the EU you can change the spec of your car. And if you move back you keep its downgraded emission standard. In this case we're talking about legal conversions. And you're allowed to sell that car inside EU Just look for the pressure sensor in order to distinguish EURO5 (with the sensor) from EURO4 Or have a JLR retailer do that job. Normally, the car's documents should confirm the EURO4 soec, too. If not, they should be remade. And in this case, the test has to be remade for the correct EURO4 spec i.e. for a pre 2011 car. |
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12th May 2023 8:40pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 421
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The 2.2 CAT only downpipe is for non-EU countries. Inside EU all 2.2 have been EURO5 (exception : EURO4 military cars) Forget about ROW. The TD5 Defenders (pre2007) have been according to European standards (while ROW Defenders kept the TDI engine). A MY2014 Defender is EURO4 or EURO5 - if conform - or illegally blanked... |
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12th May 2023 9:06pm |
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| BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63
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Current status is waiting on the dealer I purchased from to provide some additional information on the background of the vehicle to help uncover how/what/why/when.
In the meantime I have had a 'passive' DPF section made up to replace the centre silencer and thus easily passed the emissions test (result down to 5k PPM! instead of over 4million!) - not ideal as it will requiring regular (?) removal and manual cleaning however a damn sight cheaper than a genuine LR one plus all the additional parts needed to even plug it in potentially. Even an annual clean at 300 Euros means its only more expensive after 10+ years....(assuming an annual cleaning is enough) |
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15th May 2023 4:12pm |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 794 
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A friend of a friend suggested you fit your DPF for your APK.
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15th May 2023 6:08pm |
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| BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63
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Hey TexasRover
In essence that's what I have had to do however since the car didn't have it from factory from what we seem to have deduced in this thread it meant fitting an 'additional' one elsewhere in the exhaust at least for the time being until I figure out the full chain of events/history up to my ownership! |
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15th May 2023 7:22pm |
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| Will@LRW Member Since: 04 May 2019 Location: UK Posts: 130 
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Your VIN has a "Russia" marker next to it meaning it was intended for that market - it doesn't mean it actually went there (or that it helps your issue particularly), but it's another clue in the puzzle. Most of the SALLDHMR8FA vehicles were for the Russian market, followed by the general "ROW" market and then places like the UAE, Brazil and Kuwait.
I had someone contact me earlier this year to help clarify the exact same thing - they had bought a Russian vehicle sold as a German EU5 spec, which was causing similar problems. If you go the way of fitting a factory DPF, I believe the ECU map is different also on EU5 engines. Good luck! LR Workshop Find a Defender's history and spec: https://defender.lrworkshop.com |
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15th May 2023 8:23pm |
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| BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63
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Interesting! Is there anything else to look for if that is the case?
Yeh retrofitting the full factory dpf system seems like it would be alot of money and likely problems along with that! Hence why I went with my solution for now! |
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15th May 2023 9:22pm |
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| hornet Member Since: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Western Europe Posts: 324 |
Regardless of the fact that a full explanation would be interesting, I would simply remove this "temporary" DPF after the emissions test, then it won't get dirty and the car will thank you for it too. Exhaust back pressure is bad.
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16th May 2023 8:56am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3204  
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^^^ I think I would do the same... you are not breaking the law, as the vehicle was registered as it is (was). 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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16th May 2023 11:23am |
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| BaCoNMX6 Member Since: 22 Apr 2022 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 63
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I do tend to agree however for the time being I will leave it alone as I want to get a few v-bands installed on the various exhaust sections anyway to make for easier swapping if needed.
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16th May 2023 12:57pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16874 
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I would think that this is an optimistic view. If the vehicle is required to pass the tests which are the subject of this thread, then regardless of its state at time of registration I suspect that it would be unlawful to remove equipment needed to allow it to pass the test. I don't know how rigorous the enforcement regime is in the Netherlands but I would have thought that it was likely that you would not be found out if you did remove it though. It would be interesting to know if an error was made at the time of registration or if this is some strange effect of poorly-thought-out retroactive legislation. I suspect it is only a matter of time before it happens in the UK. |
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16th May 2023 2:24pm |
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