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landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5417

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

Be careful of new to old gas meters.

As you have noticed the old gas meter measures in cubic meters of gas and the new meter reads it kWh there is a mathematical way of swapping the figures but also by pressing buttons on the new meter. Often people get caught out when rather than relying on the smart, or the smart doesn’t work, they then give a meter reading in the wrong format. Also the tool who works at Eon who you can eventually talk to understands less of this than you now do.

IF Eon want too much money, I’d advise cancelling your direct debit with them, and when they contact YOU, then explain the situation and tell them once sorted you will pay.

Eon wanted £1000 from me £750 for gas, and £250 electric. I queried the gas, and had an argument with them (whilst not paying them). Took months, but eventually they gave me £1000, part of which was for electric which I hadn’t questioned. I still don’t understand what happened and chose not to question it. All very odd, but good for me. Now with octopus who are fantastic.

10th Jan 2023 11:34pm

camelman

Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3321

Not quite correct, even the new smart meters don't read in kwh they read in cubic metres.
Other information is required to convert a cubic meter value into kwh and this isn't available at the meter (it's the calorific value of the gas on a given day). The kwh value is therefore calculated by your suppliers billing system after it receives the reading from the meter.

Where there might be a difference is where your old meter read in "hundreds of cubic feet".

10th Jan 2023 11:37pm

camelman

Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3321

landy andy wrote:
Be careful of new to old gas meters.

As you have noticed the old gas meter measures in cubic meters of gas and the new meter reads it kWh there is a mathematical way of swapping the figures but also by pressing buttons on the new meter. Often people get caught out when rather than relying on the smart, or the smart doesn’t work, they then give a meter reading in the wrong format. Also the tool who works at Eon who you can eventually talk to understands less of this than you now do.

IF Eon want too much money, I’d advise cancelling your direct debit with them, and when they contact YOU, then explain the situation and tell them once sorted you will pay.

Eon wanted £1000 from me £750 for gas, and £250 electric. I queried the gas, and had an argument with them (whilst not paying them). Took months, but eventually they gave me £1000, part of which was for electric which I hadn’t questioned. I still don’t understand what happened and chose not to question it. All very odd, but good for me. Now with octopus who are fantastic.

For info, Eon and Octopus actually use the same IT and billing systems

10th Jan 2023 11:39pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5417

If I press the readout button on my smart meter it gives a figure followed by kWh.

I have to press a series of buttons on mine to give cubic meters. It is not the standard display figures.

Last edited by landy andy on 10th Jan 2023 11:47pm. Edited 1 time in total

10th Jan 2023 11:40pm

camelman

Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3321

Yep, thats an estimate based on a typical calorific value.
The calorific values of gas for each region are published daily and feed into supplier billing systems to ensure the correct kwh are billed.

10th Jan 2023 11:42pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5417

camelman wrote:
landy andy wrote:
Be careful of new to old gas meters.

As you have noticed the old gas meter measures in cubic meters of gas and the new meter reads it kWh there is a mathematical way of swapping the figures but also by pressing buttons on the new meter. Often people get caught out when rather than relying on the smart, or the smart doesn’t work, they then give a meter reading in the wrong format. Also the tool who works at Eon who you can eventually talk to understands less of this than you now do.

IF Eon want too much money, I’d advise cancelling your direct debit with them, and when they contact YOU, then explain the situation and tell them once sorted you will pay.

Eon wanted £1000 from me £750 for gas, and £250 electric. I queried the gas, and had an argument with them (whilst not paying them). Took months, but eventually they gave me £1000, part of which was for electric which I hadn’t questioned. I still don’t understand what happened and chose not to question it. All very odd, but good for me. Now with octopus who are fantastic.

For info, Eon and Octopus actually use the same IT and billing systems

But you can talk to octopus and website is brilliant, it also gives me the option to change my direct debt as I wish. They also appear to honest unlike Eon.

10th Jan 2023 11:42pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5417

camelman wrote:
Yep, thats an estimate based on a typical calorific value.
The calorific values of gas for each region are published daily and feed into supplier billing systems to ensure the correct kwh are billed.

And that is what people believe/read/provide as a meter reading which is why their bills can massively out.

10th Jan 2023 11:45pm

camelman

Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3321

Not quite as the calorific value only varies by fractions of a percent each day.

If you've used 100 cubic meters of gas since the last read, that's what the meter will tell you and what customers with non smart meters will supply as a reading. The calorific value doesn't affect the reading.

Whilst not exclusively so, you're much more likely to have an issue with an old manually read meter than a smart meter.

10th Jan 2023 11:51pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5417

1 m3 = 10.55 kWh basically

The meter displays 1055 and that is given as a meter reading, but unknown to the custom that it’s kWh, the meter reading should be 100, as that is the cubic meter amount.

That is general but I’ve found many old people who don’t trust smart meters so they give the meter displayed info to the billing company causing confusion and high bills.

11th Jan 2023 12:05am

camelman

Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3321

Just to make you all feel better, by 2026, all domestic and commercial electricity supplies will be settled across the industry on a half hourly basis so expect a huge push from the suppliers over the next 2 years to a) get even more smart meters installed and b) request consent to read your meter every half hour.

Customers who elect to stay on non smart meters will have their half hourly profiles estimated based on industry averages....

What sort of tariffs the existing suppliers decide to introduce to make use of this data is still to be determined.

11th Jan 2023 12:13am

Sjmmarsh

Member Since: 01 Jan 2023
Location: Lincs
Posts: 56

2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

If you think your gas consumption has gone up massively after a new SM, check that the old meter wasn’t so old it was showing 100 cubic feet as a unit of consumption…

11th Jan 2023 12:34am

90 Dreamer

Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 2052

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey

camelman wrote:
Just to make you all feel better, by 2026, all domestic and commercial electricity supplies will be settled across the industry on a half hourly basis so expect a huge push from the suppliers over the next 2 years to a) get even more smart meters installed and b) request consent to read your meter every half hour.

Customers who elect to stay on non smart meters will have their half hourly profiles estimated based on industry averages....

What sort of tariffs the existing suppliers decide to introduce to make use of this data is still to be determined.

What's the logic behind the 30min readings??
Just sounds like more fuel to the 'smart meter' conspiracy rabbit hole...

11th Jan 2023 10:10pm

camelman

Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 3321

It's to allow suppliers to bill different rates for different specific times of day and potentially be able to do this dynamically. This is how suppliers will be billed by the distributors going forward.

If there is very little demand between say midnight and 3am, it makes sense to run some items at this time. Being able to measure how much a customer uses in those specific half hours allows them to benefit from the cheaper electricity.

On a current single rate meter, customer.might be paying 35p/kwh for all usage whereas the actual cost might only be 3p st certain times of day. Without half hourly reads there is no way to.benefit from this.

Customers don't have to elect to be billed like this (yet) but it is one way of smoothing demand out across the day and reducing the extra generation and distribution capacity required to satisfy the increasing load on the network.

Last edited by camelman on 11th Jan 2023 11:36pm. Edited 1 time in total

11th Jan 2023 11:35pm

DSC-off

Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 1351

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

^ Probably charging extra for peak time use.

11th Jan 2023 11:35pm

excossack

Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5740

1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue

Thanks for the replies chaps. My mum is going to go through previous bills and get info together and then will speak to Eon to discuss.

Shell keep pestering me for replacement meters.... I will be taking pictures of meters before they get swapped out. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

12th Jan 2023 9:16am

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