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Home > Puma (Tdci) > Output shaft, parts needed and 'while you're in there'
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jpboost



Member Since: 13 Apr 2021
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 374

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
thanks Guys, That makes sense.

Also some good info here https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic40250.html.

I'd not appreciated that I might need to heat the couple. but shouldn't' be a problem to warm it in the oven for a bit!
Post #948486 7th Apr 2022 2:11pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16812

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Ianh wrote:
Is it this tool you need blackwolf https://jlrequipment.service-solutions.com...KU=308-701. The 308-701
LOCKING FIXTURE OUTPUT FLANGE


That's the tool the WSM calls for and which I use (since I have one) but most folk don't have one so don't use one. Be aware that since Ashcroft Transmissions started making their own couplings as opposed to modifying standard genuine parts the two notches in the coupling with which the tool engages are not present so the tool cannot be used.
Post #948505 7th Apr 2022 4:35pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3141

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
When I did mine, I did not have the locking tool, but I used some logic..
The tdci is capable to produce 360Nm of torque. On 5th gear, the gbox mainshaft could potentially see the 360Nm of torque. On lower gears, 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st, the torque on the mainshaft is multiplied by the gearing ratio, so will be higher than 360Nm.

So I just put the gearbox in 1st, and had no issues, but mine was not that tight after all. But tightening is 133lbft if I recall correctly (should be 180 first, back off, and then 133). Perhaps not good practice torquing it on the gears, but I had faith in ford 😂

You will need the locking tool if the gearbox is not mated to an engine.

I needed an assortment of helicoil sizes for mine as had a few stripped threads. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #948514 7th Apr 2022 5:18pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1695

United Kingdom 
blackwolf wrote:


That's the tool the WSM calls for and which I use (since I have one) but most folk don't have one so don't use one. Be aware that since Ashcroft Transmissions started making their own couplings as opposed to modifying standard genuine parts the two notches in the coupling with which the tool engages are not present so the tool cannot be used.


As they don’t provide notches have Ashcroft advised on how to hold the coupling to torque the nut when fitting, or removing it at a later stage if needed ?
Post #948519 7th Apr 2022 5:33pm
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keef9t



Member Since: 13 Mar 2016
Location: manchester
Posts: 168

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey
When I changed mine a couple of years ago I came across the same problem. I had purchased the locking tool which was useful during removal but when I came to fit the Ashcroft, no slots, as has been described. I contacted Ashcroft, they could only recommend using an impact driver, which I did not possess. In the end I tried the "in gear" method but found the engine turning as well and ended up locking the crankshaft pulley with a long spanner against the chassis rail.
Post #948884 10th Apr 2022 1:02pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3141

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
^^^ which gear did you put it in?
I think I read somewhere to put the gearbox in “a high gear”. But I think that is not correct. Should put in 1st so that the gearbox locks by over 5 times the torque required to rotate the engine. This is exactly same as when you park your car and want to provide extra security to your handbrake. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #948888 10th Apr 2022 2:02pm
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keef9t



Member Since: 13 Mar 2016
Location: manchester
Posts: 168

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey
Unfortunately I can't remember the details. I would have tried a few gears. If I recall correctly, the engine turned in them all.
Post #948892 10th Apr 2022 3:03pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3141

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
I had no problems reaching 133 foot pounds just on 1st gear. I did not need to over torque (to ensure that the cup is driven in all the way) unfortunately.

I have the 2.2, and that has a bit more stroke, but less compression than the 2.4, not sure if it makes that big of a difference though. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #948895 10th Apr 2022 3:27pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1695

United Kingdom 
keef9t wrote:
When I changed mine a couple of years ago I came across the same problem. I had purchased the locking tool which was useful during removal but when I came to fit the Ashcroft, no slots, as has been described. I contacted Ashcroft, they could only recommend using an impact driver, which I did not possess. In the end I tried the "in gear" method but found the engine turning as well and ended up locking the crankshaft pulley with a long spanner against the chassis rail.


How are you meant to get the torque right with an impact gun ! I suppose you could use something like a torque stick of the right torque, if one can be found, but I don’t think they are that accurate.

I’m not familiar with the Ashcroft setup, but assume for some reason ( probably oil sealing) slots are not appropriate. Would be nice to know if someone can elaborate further.
Post #948898 10th Apr 2022 4:08pm
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3141

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
The only thing I can think to why the slots were omitted is a cost reduction. And is very likely that Landrover designed the slots for assembly.
Without slots there are a few more mm^2 of spline contact area 👍 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #948908 10th Apr 2022 5:18pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16812

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I am not certain (maybe Dave Ashcroft will see this and provide the answer) why they were not included in the design when Ashcroft Transmissions started manufacturing their own parts (or sourcing them directly) rather than modifying Landrover parts, bit I think it is likely to have been a cost reducing measure.

The early kits used modified Landrover parts and these featured the holding notches since they were already present before Ashcroft transmissions machined the modifications into the part. The later kits use parts sourced elsewhere (or perhaps manufactured in-house) and these do not have the notches, probably to save an additional machining operation which I suspect would require the parts to be transferred to and set up in a different machine (it's a milling operation rather than a turning operation).

There doesn't appear to be anything about the fundamental design which would prevent the notches being incorporated, but the more machining involved, the greater the cost.

I have wondered about the feasibility of machining the slots in an unslotted part prior to fitting, but I'm not sure about the heat treatment and surface finish of the part. Given that this is likely to be similar to the Landrover parts which clearly are machinable it is likely that it could be done without problems. One day when I have nothing better to do I might set one up on the mill and try.
Post #948914 10th Apr 2022 5:41pm
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jpboost



Member Since: 13 Apr 2021
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 374

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
So it all went well.

Took about 5 hours all in. It would have been an hour or so quicker if we hadn't have removed the casing between the box and transfer box, but I'm glad we did.

By removing that casing it was easier to get the puller on, and also made fitting the new output seal a doddle.

I'm pleased to say it now drives much better.

The old shaft was pretty worn, and also wasn't 'snapped' in as it just pulled out easily. There are 2 clear wear lines on the shaft and cup, where I think it was running for a good while when the snap ring was seated, and then again a good while when not.

Pics below in case they are of interest to anyone. I'll also load them to the big output shaft thread in case helpful. It's done 80k ish miles, and have no evidence of it being changed previously.

Thanks again for all your help on this, it was really appreciated and gave me the motivation (and perhaps some confidence) to get on with it.

It drives much better, with a noticeable reduction in driveline slack.



Click image to enlarge




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Thanks
Jon
Post #949567 16th Apr 2022 11:58am
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jpboost



Member Since: 13 Apr 2021
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 374

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Duplicate post
Post #949568 16th Apr 2022 11:58am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16812

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Glad it went well for you, excellent result.

An hour to remove and refit the extension housing? Really? Very Happy
Post #949604 16th Apr 2022 8:43pm
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Co1



Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3605

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Loire Blue
Did you do it on a ramp or on the drive? Is taking the transfer box out a 1 man job or not?
Post #949616 17th Apr 2022 7:20am
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