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Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Keswick Green

Broken spline in axle housing

Morning all

I overhauled the swivel and hub over the weekend . On removing the swivel I found this little bit of metallic debris sitting just inside the housing . It clearly looks like a tooth from one of the components but is approximately 3-4 times the size of a half shaft spline . Any ideas on what it exactly ?!
The defender is pulling vaguely to the left and suffering from light torque steer , could this be the cause ? All bearings and swivel pins are good , suspension set up is only a few weeks old. A bit of slop in diff (1/4 of a turn) and a tad clunky. Other than that no awful grinding noises.

I’m falling out of love with this particular defender !

Thanks

Rich

Click image to enlarge

7th Jan 2019 10:07am

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Should add that it stops pulling left when you dump the clutch

7th Jan 2019 10:09am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16883

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

When you say "housing" do you mean the swivel housing, or was it in the end of the axle tube?

If it was in the axle tube, this, together with the characteristics you describe, would make me suspect that the front diff is breaking up. Assuming that it is the Defender in your avatar and therefore a 2009 110, it probably has a single cross-pin in the front diff (a two gear diff, later models had a much stronger four gear diff). The single cross pin or two-gear diff is weak for a 110 (or 130) and is a common failure, generally with some undesirable steering effects (when mine failed the diff locked solid, making it virtually impossible to steer the vehicle).

It is possible to get some idea of the state of the diff my looking through the oil filler hole in the axle case, but the only sure way is to drop the diff out of the axle. If you are finding metal fragments in the axle case and you have odd steering effects, I would suggest that this would be a sensible course of action.

The photos below show my diff after it failed. Note the elongated hole in the carrier where the cross-pin is supposed to be, and the damage to the teeth of the differential gears. In this case the cross-pin broke in two, dropped into the differential gear cluster locking it completely and breaking many teeth of all the differential gears. Fortunately although this locked the diff solid making steering next to impossible, it didn't lock the axle solid. Landrover of course maintains that there is no problem with these diffs and that it was purely coincidental that later 110 and 130 Defenders have a stronger front diff.

Click image to enlarge

7th Jan 2019 11:54am

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Thank you Blackwolf for your in depth reply .
Yes it was inside the axle tube itself , just sitting on the edge with half a dozen much smaller fragments (1mm ish ) !

Ironically this front diff was an entire axle replacement from a used 2012 110 so I imagine that would be the stronger 4 pin you speak of ?!

I have my original diff in the broken axle housing so I could swap that over or I suppose or buy a reconditioned unit from Ashcroft or the like.

Out of interest who do you use in the west country for your work or do you do most of it yourself ?

7th Jan 2019 12:05pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16883

I do my own work, sadly I don't trust anyone else to do it (at least not anyone I can afford)!

You should certainly be able to tell if you have the two gear or four gear diff by peering through the filler hole, they are very different in appearance. The two gear diff has a very open carrier (as in my photos) whilst the four gear is solid. If you can see the differential gears (I don't mean the crownwheel, of course) then it is a two gear diff.

I can think of no circumstances under which I would now fit a two gear diff in the front of any Defender, four is the way to go. If you old 2-gear diff is OK and you need a new one for your current axle, I would suggest either fitting the old one temporarily and using the broken one as the basis for an Ashcroft build (this presupposes that the broken one isn't so damaged that it can't be used) or use the old good one as the basis for an Ashcroft build.

When I changed mine, the cost of a fully-built Ashcroft ATB diff assembly bought outright was very much less that the cost of an exchange standard diff from Landrover.

it might as a fist step be worth draining the axle oil to see how much additional debris comes out, but the presence of any fragments at all in the axle tube is bad news.

7th Jan 2019 12:18pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Thank you Blackwolf I believe you talk sense ! I’ll drain it and let you know what I find but at the moment it doesn’t feel at all safe to drive , unpredictable steering isn’t at all ideal .

Will let you know how I get on

7th Jan 2019 1:14pm

MadTom

Member Since: 10 Sep 2013
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 576

It looks like a broken tooth from diff gear wheel - the smallest one. Las summer I was replacing both diffs on our Discovery 2 for lockers and both were nearly shot - in rear there were small chips on some wheels, front had tiny beak lines on all teeth and some metalic-like oil inside. it took me quite a long time to clean the axle tubes from small metal particles - first wiping then, than picking up the rest with strong magnet. If you don't have the oil drain plug with magnet, get one. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo

7th Jan 2019 6:35pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Thank you madtom, i’ll definitely be cleaning out the axle casing .

Interestling I had to drive it locally this evening , up a very long steep hill , with my foot down on the accelerator the steering was really quite stiff until I eased off the accelerator at the top !
Diff out tomorrow

7th Jan 2019 6:48pm

LR90XS2011

Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3614

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

what Blackwolf said diff probably on the way out, take a look at the Ashcroft ATB thread. DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

7th Jan 2019 7:58pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Well Diff went today .
I’ve been caught up with things on the farm and hadn’t had time to switch it out , plus I was a little apprehensive as not done it before !
There was a crunch or two and all drive went. So I slipped it into diff lock and crawled up to the workshop .
Drained the oil and inspected the magnetic plug !!!! Here’s how it looked .

Click image to enlarge

4th Feb 2019 1:37pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Just starting to strip it down now !

4th Feb 2019 1:38pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6264

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

I think it's fair to say you're going to find a problem

4th Feb 2019 2:01pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Yup it’s cooked !

4th Feb 2019 2:20pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6264

even with my limited mechanical knowledge I'd say that's less than ideal.

good luck with the rebuild.

4th Feb 2019 2:22pm

Bluericky

Member Since: 26 Jun 2014
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 647

Is the diff gasket necessary? Mine just appears to have copious amounts of rtv sealant around it . Could do both but would rather hear from experience

4th Feb 2019 2:35pm

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