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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Odd starting problem - 2.4tdci - SOLVED
Morning all.

Had an odd starting problem the last few days on my 2.4tdci with approx 80k Miles on the clock.

Turn the key through first phase, all Christmas tree lights light as per normal. Wait for the glow plug lamp to go out, little pump on the accelerator and turn key to second phase. Engine turns perhaps twice then cuts out. If I switch off completely and restart immediately (after waiting for the glow plug light to go out) engine doesn't turn at all, no sound from starter etc, despite all Christmas lights showing. If I switch everything off and wait approx 60 secs, then restart, it goes through the sequence as mentioned above. Eventually it will always start, but might be two or might be six of these routines. Sometimes none. No surprise that it's more when slightly colder. This has only been going on the last week or two.

As I've had the Def since 40k on the clock with no idea if/when the battery was changed, I was going to replace it anyway, and clean up the terminals and cables at the same time. But does the sequence lend itself to anything else? Starter motor? Fuel pump? Etc. Note that on fuel it's been running total excellium for the last few months and external temps have not got so low that sludgey diesel might be the culprit. I still need to cover the fuel filter though.

But with the immediate restart showing no mechanical effort whatsoever, I'm thinking electrical rather than fuelling, although all lights and ancils seem to work fine.

Thanks in advance as always Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey


Last edited by Grenadier on 12th Jan 2021 3:33pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #876016 3rd Jan 2021 10:37am
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Leamreject



Member Since: 19 Dec 2020
Location: Middle Earth - Leamington Spa
Posts: 950

Italy 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Fuji White
Have you checked all of your battery, solenoid and earths are clean and tight? Ride like you stole it!!
If I’m not on a bike it’s because only a 4x4 will do…
2011 2.4 Puma 90 HT
Post #876017 3rd Jan 2021 10:42am
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Leamreject



Member Since: 19 Dec 2020
Location: Middle Earth - Leamington Spa
Posts: 950

Italy 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Fuji White
Connections that is..... Ride like you stole it!!
If I’m not on a bike it’s because only a 4x4 will do…
2011 2.4 Puma 90 HT
Post #876018 3rd Jan 2021 10:43am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Was Going to do that today. Think I leant my battery tester to someone but can't for the life of me remember who. Rolling Eyes Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #876019 3rd Jan 2021 10:45am
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
Can I ask why you do a little pump on the accelerator before starting? 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #876023 3rd Jan 2021 11:12am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
^^^ Just working my right quad. Want it to look awesome.

Only do a pump of two in winter, just to get a bit of fuel moving around. Might make no sense at all and be some dated witchcraft. Certainly if I don't, it's always been a little sluggish. Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #876025 3rd Jan 2021 11:15am
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X4SKP



Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2284

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
Hello Grenadier

When you read a thread title that enters ground you've been in before there is a tendency to think
'I know what that is' which of course may or may not be right... but reading your summary and after
checking relays and main connections are tight... I'd consider replacing the the ignition switch, for the
money if not time to complete it takes a 'weak link' out of the problem.

I learnt this the hard way after starting with bigger items (Battery / Starter Motor Shocked )

I was told this little piece of Lucas Twisted Evil originally started life in the Morris Marina and somehow
went the distance to the Puma finishing line... but for me definitely the issue. I've also heard from a very
reputable Indi' that when (not if) they begin to break down a varying set of will she wont she start sequences
are reported. I travel with a spare now.

My Problem...
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic51335-30.html

My Fix...
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56773...p;start=45

Good Luck... Thumbs Up SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html
Post #876027 3rd Jan 2021 11:47am
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
Grenadier wrote:
^^^ Just working my right quad. Want it to look awesome.

Only do a pump of two in winter, just to get a bit of fuel moving around. Might make no sense at all and be some dated witchcraft. Certainly if I don't, it's always been a little sluggish.


I think with it being an e-throttle and the engine not running it won’t do anything at all. Wing do any harm though. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #876030 3rd Jan 2021 12:02pm
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custom90



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19452

United Kingdom 
Starter motors work a lot harder in really cold weather, depending on how old it is a new battery might be in order.
If it’s not that perhaps a spare starter in case you need it.
Check the battery clamps are nice and tight too.

Personally I’d stop the throttle pushing, never needed and might cause ECU confusion.
I also always use the glow plugs on every start, and always have done which you do too by what I’ve read.
You can also check the torque settings of the fixings too, both on the live side (isolated and disconnected!) and the ground side.
The specs are in the Workshop manual or no doubt on here too hidden away.

If you don’t already use some Millers diesel additive too, that is good stuff I run it all the time. Diesels Lives Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️
And if You Love the Country, then we’re on the same side ~
I got’ love for Britain, I got’ British pride’. 🇬🇧
Post #876037 3rd Jan 2021 12:31pm
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Bluest wrote:
Grenadier wrote:
^^^ Just working my right quad. Want it to look awesome.

Only do a pump of two in winter, just to get a bit of fuel moving around. Might make no sense at all and be some dated witchcraft. Certainly if I don't, it's always been a little sluggish.


I think with it being an e-throttle and the engine not running it won’t do anything at all. Wing do any harm though.


Ah, good to know. Won't bother then. Right thigh becoming much bigger than the left Whistle Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #876039 3rd Jan 2021 12:41pm
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
X4SKP wrote:
Hello Grenadier

When you read a thread title that enters ground you've been in before there is a tendency to think
'I know what that is' which of course may or may not be right... but reading your summary and after
checking relays and main connections are tight... I'd consider replacing the the ignition switch, for the
money if not time to complete it takes a 'weak link' out of the problem.

I learnt this the hard way after starting with bigger items (Battery / Starter Motor Shocked )

I was told this little piece of Lucas Twisted Evil originally started life in the Morris Marina and somehow
went the distance to the Puma finishing line... but for me definitely the issue. I've also heard from a very
reputable Indi' that when (not if) they begin to break down a varying set of will she wont she start sequences
are reported. I travel with a spare now.

My Problem...
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic51335-30.html

My Fix...
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56773...p;start=45

Good Luck... Thumbs Up


Thanks Skip, your 'problem' and those of others who posted replies, seems to be exactly what I'm suffering. Interestingly, two points to share.

First, I've just been to the supermarket and back, no problems whatsoever. Parked up when home, shut down and did three further faultless starts back-to-back.

Second, a handful of times this year I wasn't able to turn the key in the ignition at all. It's not the steering lock blocking it, certainly the barrel. Always eventually loosens, but I have intended to replace the barrel. So will do the switch at the same time and look for a quality OEM.

Ta Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #876040 3rd Jan 2021 12:49pm
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Leamreject



Member Since: 19 Dec 2020
Location: Middle Earth - Leamington Spa
Posts: 950

Italy 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Fuji White
In exceptionally cold weather it might help to run the glow plug pre-heat more than once, turn the ignition off and back on and wait for the light to go out again.

During cold start the glow plugs remain powered for a short engine running time even once the light has gone out, the light is to prompt the user to allow a minimum pre-heat. Ride like you stole it!!
If I’m not on a bike it’s because only a 4x4 will do…
2011 2.4 Puma 90 HT
Post #876043 3rd Jan 2021 12:55pm
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
^^^ As it happens, and for the very reasons you mentioned, I do. Three times and then a long ish wait. Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #876045 3rd Jan 2021 1:01pm
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5765

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
OK, ignoring Britpart and Allmakes, we have Lucas at £28 and Genuine LR at £52. Skip, your thread implied that the part is made by Lucas, so would the 'genuine' LR and Lucas be one and the same? Note, they look different in the photos I've seen. If they are different, would we trust Genuine LR over Lucas? Price not an issue, getting the best part is. Thumbs Up Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #876046 3rd Jan 2021 1:04pm
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Bluest



Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3993

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black
From what my Dad tells me (he’s into MGs), Lucas is just a zombie brand now. Lucas badge applied to generic parts, no longer a manufacturer in its own right. I don’t know of anyone can confirm that, but if so I’d steer clear. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
Post #876048 3rd Jan 2021 1:14pm
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