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Home > Puma (Tdci) > Injector seat cutter. 2.4tdci Puma
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Crockett55



Member Since: 14 Oct 2020
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 
Injector seat cutter. 2.4tdci Puma
Hi can anyone tell me the correct injector seat cutter size is please as I have to repair some damage caused due to the injectors coming loose . Many thanks
Post #861550 14th Oct 2020 3:21pm
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2218

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Post #861587 14th Oct 2020 7:20pm
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Crockett55



Member Since: 14 Oct 2020
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 
Hi thanks for that was it a 15-19 flat ?
Post #861649 14th Oct 2020 9:55pm
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skidrov



Member Since: 06 Oct 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 51

Australia 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Fuji White
Feel a bit silly questioning someone who's actually done it, but I thought I had read, especially on Transit forums, that it was 17x17 flat?
Post #861679 15th Oct 2020 7:44am
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2218

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I had also read 17x17 flat on a transit website and even referenced it in the last post of this thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic67028.html

So I ordered a kit containing a 17x17 cutter only to find it was too large to go down the injector bore.

You can see in the below photo that there is a counterbore within the injector bore around 20mm above the seat... This is where the 17mm cutter fouled. In saying this, you can see the 15mm cut diameter of the seat and there looks to be at least 1mm not cut beyond that so the 17mm should fit? Perhaps my counterbore was fouled up preventing the 17mm cutter from going down?

That being said the copper seal washer is 13.5mm outer diameter so 15mm cut seat is fine. Luckily my kit also contained a 15x15 flat which did the job and I confirm my injectors are still sealed!


Click image to enlarge
 > 110 XS Double Cab
> Instagram @simonlanemind
Post #861685 15th Oct 2020 8:32am
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Crockett55



Member Since: 14 Oct 2020
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 

Interesting, I am having a few problems. My 17/17 goes down ok but seams to be cutting a ridge at the bottom and not touching the seat . I have a 15 / 19 which goes down but I seem to be taking minimal metal almost a scraping so it not cutting into the damaged seat . I’m wound sting if the 19 is bottoming some where but I can’t see where . I’m thinking a 15/15 is the way to go which is not in my set . You can see the damage caused by the injector hexagon .


Last edited by Crockett55 on 15th Oct 2020 12:45pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #861719 15th Oct 2020 11:10am
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2218

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
How annoying. For info this is the kit I used which contains a 15x15 flat

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07TFVTWPD > 110 XS Double Cab
> Instagram @simonlanemind
Post #861723 15th Oct 2020 11:43am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
My Sykes Pickavant set says use the flat 15mm (but I haven't yet done this job on the TDCi myself).
Post #861726 15th Oct 2020 12:10pm
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2218

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Ah nice. There's nothing in the service manual... Just says "check for blow by and rectify as necessary" > 110 XS Double Cab
> Instagram @simonlanemind
Post #861728 15th Oct 2020 12:26pm
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Moffett



Member Since: 08 May 2018
Location: Sligo
Posts: 69

Ireland 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
What did you guys torque the stretch bolt on the injector clamp to?
Post #861967 16th Oct 2020 6:38pm
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Crockett55



Member Since: 14 Oct 2020
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 
New bolt ( clamps replaced is recommended) 6nm or 4lb Plus further 180deg
Post #861968 16th Oct 2020 6:49pm
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Moffett



Member Since: 08 May 2018
Location: Sligo
Posts: 69

Ireland 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Cheers Crocket, didn't know about the new clamps. I was going looking at this today but might order 2 clamps and do the brakes instead.
Post #862050 17th Oct 2020 8:03am
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Crockett55



Member Since: 14 Oct 2020
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 5

United Kingdom 
Apparently they can crack they are not expensive go genuine Ford or Land Rover .
Post #862056 17th Oct 2020 9:18am
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Moffett



Member Since: 08 May 2018
Location: Sligo
Posts: 69

Ireland 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Well, I got up to the shed and changed the first two injector seals. What a strange job of uncertainties. The seat cutting tool is vauge fit and does not centre well. I got it to work but the majority of the cleaning was done using a rag wrapped around some nylon bar stock. The copper washers in my eBay kit were wider than those removed, but fit the bore nice flat side down as advised by Google. The springs in the oil seals HD popped out in the jiffy bag, and didn't seat well when reinstalled. I made the decision to leave them out as the rubber is a tight fit around the injector and I don't want them coming off under the rocker cover. One of the green clips on the leak back pipes is missing and replaced by a cable tie. I reinstalled everything and ordered the green clips. Washed everything down with solvent and went for a good drive. The front two injectors are dry as is the formerly leaking fuel rail. I have come to the following decision. I have ordered a different injector seat cleaning kit and am currently browsing better quality seal kits (recommendations welcome!). I am going to pull all 4 injectors and send them for testing /recon. I might replace the injector pipes also. I can see now the devil is in the detail with this job. The seat cutting tool was my main issue. I would need one that was tailored specifically to a Defender. I am going to try Laser 6101. I will only need the cutter if the seats are badly coked up with carbon.
Post #862491 19th Oct 2020 7:37pm
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2218

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Totally agree with devil being in the detail!

A few snippets I can share from my (unfortunately) detailed research on this job Laughing

OE copper seals from JLR are extortionate. They are slightly cheaper from Ford but still outrageous given what they are. Cheap ebay ones or the ones included in the chinese kits are poor quality and a false economy. When I measured mine they mic'd up thin which doesn't help in achieving a seal as they contribute to the overall length between head and injector clamp coming up short.

It's definitely worth getting quality seals from a branded manufacturer. I can recommend these Elring ones from personal experience https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/173834488507
Alternatively there are thousands on ebay if you can be arsed to browse the specification Outside Diameter: 13.7mm,
Internal Diameter: 7.16mm, Thickness: 1.6mm.
I like those Elring ones from the ebay link as they're slightly smaller on the internal and larger on the external giving a greater cross sectional sealing face. They're also a smidge thicker so clamp down nice.

The following vehicles use the same for info.
Citroen Relay 2.2 HDI 100 2006-2013
Ford Transit MK7 2.2 / 2.4 / 3.2 TDCi 2006-2014
Ford Transit Tourneo 2.2 TDCi 2006-2014
Land Rover Defender / Defender Cabrio 2.4 TD4 4x4 2007-2016
Peugeot Boxer 2.2 HDI 120 2006-2018
Ford Mondeo 2000-2014

The rocker cover oil seal springs seem too weak to do much! The oil seals are almost just splash guards keeping water out and oil spray in with a secondary function of being emergency pressure reliefs if the positive crankcase ventilation fails. My springs dislodged too but personally I did refit for peace of mind. As an aside if the springs do pop off inside the rocker cover they can't go far as they stay around the injector body and can't fall below the injector holes in the rocker arm cover (see pic below)

My injector tool has a 3/8 square drive and I found that driving it with my air ratchet was helpful as your hands remain stationary which helps maintain alignment Doing it by hand the cutter shank kept binding up in the bore. I used next to no downwards force other than the tool weight and let the cutter do the work over many many rotations. More like a scraper than a cutter.

Not sure about the green clips? My leak back pipes clips were metal.


Click image to enlarge
 > 110 XS Double Cab
> Instagram @simonlanemind
Post #862564 20th Oct 2020 9:02am
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