 | Home > My Defender > 1988 Shire Blue Landrover 90 Restoration |
 
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7873   
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Just another challenge!!
 James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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8th Jan 2021 11:03pm |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7873
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Or.... you could slip in little 3.5V8!!
 James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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9th Jan 2021 12:00am |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7873
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My Ninety was originally a diesel and was converted to 3.5 long before my ownership, so can't comment on how difficult it is. I believe I still have a LT77 gearbox, it's the same as the standard 200tdi gearbox anyway. I'm sure someone far more knowledgeable will be able to help.
 James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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9th Jan 2021 9:36am |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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The v8 bell housing requires a bigger tunnel in the bulkhead than the lt77/200tdi one. I bought a galvanised bulkhead to suit, but pretty sure you could chop it.
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9th Jan 2021 5:10pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240 
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I think you've found why so many of these engines have been swapped for 200tdi's. In good condition they're ok but keeping them that way is difficult as really they are over stressed. The very late versions were supposed to have ironed out all of the weaknesses but they were soon eclipsed by the tdi. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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9th Jan 2021 5:48pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3198  
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I have not yet given up on the old girl.
I am the type who prefers to repair than replace, even though it was not always economical!! With a bit of cleaning... something was going on on cylinder #2. The piston does not look worse than others, #4 is the worse piston. What I found is the valve stem seals were not sealing properly. I actually found a few valve seals which were off their seating, but not sure if I nocked them off when removing the springs. But most, and especially the valves for cylinder 2 were drenched in oil, and valves from cylinder 2 were caked with carbon. Suspect is oil leaking in cylinder, raising up the temperature. Thoughts... other than I might have a lump of scrap metal. On the topic....what is the difference between 19J and 12J cylinder head? I found some heads that have 34mm diameter hotplugs, and others with 36mm hotplugs. No idea if this was another change to try to make the 19J less prone to fail. But then I have no idea which one will be the better, 34mm or 36mm hotplug.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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9th Jan 2021 6:22pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240
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Compared to the 12J, the 19J had bigger water passages in the cylinder head and different cam shafts which also went over to belt drive. They also used different glow plugs - 12v instead of 6v on the older engine. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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9th Jan 2021 6:47pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3198
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Hi Darren,
Are you perhaps confusing it with the 10J from the series vehicles? Those were with chain driven camshafts, and injection pump driven off the cam shaft. 12J was belt driven, with injection pump driven with the timing belt, and a vacuum pump in place where the injection pump was on the 10J. My casting is HRC1474.. And so is this: https://www.athousakis.gr/en/kapaki/cylind...ver-8.html On that same site, I see the different diameter of hot plugs (swirl plugs, combustion chambers). That's why I am confused. Thy have the 19J head here: https://www.athousakis.gr/en/kapaki/cylind...ver-8.html Tomorrow I try to measure mine. Strange that it would have same part number. Maybe just a revision. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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9th Jan 2021 7:51pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3198
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From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_engines
Diesel Turbo (Engine Code 19J) although essentially the same as the 2.5-litre diesel, had numerous additions and modifications to allow it to cope with the stresses of turbocharging. New pistons with Teflon-coated crowns and Nimonic steel exhaust valves were used to withstand higher combustion temperatures. The crankshaft was cross-drilled for improved strength and cooling. The block was modified to allow an oil feed/drain system to the turbocharger, and the cooling system was improved with an 8-bladed viscous fan and integral oil cooler. The engine was fitted with a high-capacity breather system to cope with the greater volumes of gas flow through the engine 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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9th Jan 2021 7:55pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240
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Ah sorry, my mistake. I did indeed mix it up with the 10J
 Perhaps there weren't that many differences after all, although LR did make many changes to this engine during its' life, partly to try to improve reliability and partly, towards the end, in preparation for the introduction of the 200tdi, which used the same block. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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10th Jan 2021 12:37am |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2547 
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I admire your keenness for originality and I would even go as far as to run a 19J engine in good fettle as they aren’t too bad, not quite as much grunt but quieter than a Tdi. Yours however needs a lot of work and unless you’re looking to build a car for concours d’elegance and are actually going to drive the thing then the improved power, drivability and reliability of a Tdi makes far more sense.
They’re not as ten-a-penny as they used to be but there are still plenty of good used Tdi engines about. A 200Tdi is a simpler fit, particularly the Defender version (much rarer and pricier) but 300Tdis are more common and have better parts availability. I appreciate also that being overseas things are very different to the UK. Whichever way you go good luck, the bodywork and chassis look fab. Can I ask what your paint setup is? |
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10th Jan 2021 2:51pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3198
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Hi Retroanaconda,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Yes, I think I want originality first and foremost. Why? Kind of sentimental... I practically own this 90 since I got my drivers license. Have so much memories, mostly nice memories of my younger age. I am very sure that the tdi makes it more drivable... and noisier, but I lived with a 19J for the best part of 20 years before getting a second car as my daily. When the restoration started, I missed it so much, that went about and got myself a puma. I will not argue with anyone if the puma has the best drivability.. but it filled my gap. Yes, locally 200 are alse scarce, but may become available as I see a trend of people fitting Td5, as they are quite plenty from breaking D2s. In the meantime, I will continue my quest to get the 19J repaired, if possible. Not sure what information you need on the paint setup, but generally this is what I do: Steel parts: Depending in size and function / exposure to elements they will be zinc plated or hot dipped. Etch primer, I use an industrial primer, 2 part 1:1 with activator. This is high in zinc chromate. Then they get minimum 2 coats of satin 2k black paint. This is also industrial grade. I let coats dry so can sand between coats to get a very smooth finish. Where I need it more hard wearing, I use 3 coats. Bodywork, similar to above, no galvanizing though. Depending on scratch level from the body work, I use high build primer, 2k after the etch primer. I also give 2 coats, sanding between coats. It gives me quite a tick layer of paint. Have not neasured thickness, but I think I have around 100microns of paint thickness. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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10th Jan 2021 6:44pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3198
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As for hardware, spraygun is a an HVLP, 1.4mm tip. Nothing very special, it is a diyer spray gun. I wish I have a wider spray fan... I can open up the air to get more fan, but the paint consumption would become ridiculous.
Unfortunately no paint boot, a bit dusty, so I try to pick the correct day especially when to shoot the final coat. Air compressor is a small 50 liter. I find it is more than enough. I use 2 bar, or 18psi of pressure on the gun, and still throttle the air at the gun. Locally humidity is a bit high, so had to make some contraptions to remove condensation from the air line. Without going to expensive air dryers, I made a line as large as possible, it is about 2” diameter so the air slows down and has somewhere to collect the water before going into a second stage filter and another filter after the air line to the gun. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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10th Jan 2021 6:57pm |
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| Lodelaner Member Since: 04 Feb 2010 Location: Lambourn Posts: 621 
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As said on your other thread, I'd keep the 19J and rebuild it. But having fitted a V8 using the same model year perhaps I can help with some definitive answers for your V8 questions?
1. How does it fit to the lt77? Will I need to chop off anything of the bulkhead? You'll need to either fit a longer mainshaft or swap the gearbox for an LT77 from a V8 Range Rover Classic or early (pre 1993 D1.) If you go down this route you'll need to transfer the gear stick selector turret housing from your gearbox and use a yoke (ashcrofts) to make it work. Leave the bulkhead - no chopping required. 2. Exhaust.. of course v8 has 2 headers. Would I need additional hangers on the chassis? Yes and no. Your mounts are the old type with brackets and bushes. its easier to weld on new hangers and use the later rubber mounts from Td5 onwards. You'll need one forward of the resonator, one behind the resonator and one for the tail off the rear crossmember. These are all in the sale approx positions as yours are now. 3. Engine mounts.. Does it use the same chassis brackets used up to 200tdi? No. These will need cutting off and V8 mounts welding on. Positioning is straightforward as they line up with the ribs alongside the front damper turrets. 4. Electrical, I would assume that instead powering the stop solenoid on a diesel, power the distributer on the V8? 2 wires for a carb V8, 4 wires for an Lucas EFi is all it takes. 5. Radiator. I already bought a new one for the 19J. It incorporates the oil cooler. Perhaps can still use for a V8? The 19J rad is a good match. It's has more cooling capacity than the V8 factory one, If you fit an EFi with oil cooler you can plumb the cooler pipes in as well. My V8 has the 19J rad. 6. Fuel tank. I already bought a new one to replace the one I have. It is the 2 hole type. V8 probably has no return, so maybe just a matter of blanking one hole. You can use the 2 hole type. One for the in-tank pump (both Efi and carb had fin tank) and the other for the sender. 7. And the biggest problem is regulations. In the past I could fit a straight 12 with the first few cylinders projecting a foot from the front of the car , and it would not bother anyone, including the law. Nowadays, it is a different story.. and fitting a bigger cubic capacity will ring bells with the authorities, even though it was offered by the manufacturer, and fitting from same manufacturer from the same period. Hmmm... easier in the UK. Just sent a letter to the vehicle registration and licensing people. JB @Lodelaner Instagram Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content |
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11th Jan 2021 12:34pm |
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