 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > Does anyone really care. |
 
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| LandymanStefan Member Since: 30 Aug 2017 Location: Surrey Posts: 860   
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I think this defender is the last straw for many and has pushed a lot of original land rover fans away from the brand. I think a lot of the die hard fans were letting them off with all the flashy models with the hope they were keeping the defender for us. Ever since i was a child i was used to regular trips to the showroom with my dad who owned 2 Disco 1's a Disco 2 and eventually his dream car the L322. I spent all my childhood being ferried around and going on holidays in them, when we went to the dealers they'd always find an old poster that i could take home and stick on the wall. I used to climb into all the models and be interested in them all for being so different from the defender (always told 'son you wont want one of these, horrible things'), disco 2, freelander 1 with the back part of the roof that would come off and the sliding boot window that went up and down then into the rangey. They were all so different to any other cars on the market and all so different to each other. Now you go to the showroom and although they resemble the new LR style they are all very similar and theres nothing much to distinguish them from the SUV competition that didnt exist 20 years ago. In my most recent visit to the showroom i was thoroughly underwelmed by all the interiors going super minimal with no buttons in the range rovers, theres just no character anymore. I remember when the L322 interior came out and it was frankly amazing, i remember seeing picture in the magazine before it came out and it looked unreal. After the last visit to the showroom last year that was when my dad decided to leave the brand after 30 years of LR products and bought an X5 M for the same price as a used RR sport and its sooo much more car, the engineering and infotainment is leaps and bounds ahead of LR and the interior is lovely.
I'll keep my defender until i can afford a nice g wagon, not an AMG just a plain one that i can actually use driving over the alps in a little more comfort and hopefully reliability than a defender with the same sense of adventure. The new one isnt a defender at all. I feel that it should have been added it to the discovery range, it would have fitted in nicely as a 'Discovery adventure' then they could have retained the 'Full fat Disco' and the disco sport branding. They shoudve saved the defender brand for something that is utilitarian to compete with the wrangler and or pick ups. That said i do really like the interior of the new defender, its nice to see its heritage in the dash design and semi rugged looks its just a shame the exterior designers didnt do so well and just made a blob |
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26th Mar 2020 1:32pm |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 567 
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I'm still quite excited about it but only because i'm in the new segment of customers. I was let down by the new Discovery so I'll be moving over to a 110. Having been brought up on Series and Defenders in my younger years they would never fulfil my requirements later in life but the Discovery did until the V5 came along. The New defender looks like it could. I hope for Land Rovers sake there are more people like me otherwise given everything thats happening in the world they will be in serious trouble very soon. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE
RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten |
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26th Mar 2020 2:39pm |
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| Morepower Member Since: 08 Jan 2013 Location: Fife, Scotland Posts: 630 
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I couldn't agree more with all of the above sentiments.... But in reality LR are losing ALOT of money... So they had to resurrect the Defender name.... The only platform they had that was anywhere near suitable was the D5... So they just butchered that and banged on a load of cheap to manufacture plastics....
It costs soooo much because every Defender they make isn't a disco... and the bean counters will have price costed the D5's sales price... Hence why the Defender is basically the same price... They can't afford to sell it any cheaper.... The D5 has basically been a massive flop, There's loads of surplus capacity... So base the Defender on that.... Some of you may have read this before... But it shows why we've ended up with what we have  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge It doesn't matter how bad it is, It can always get worse... 2013 Bowler 110 (Sold) 2016 Bowler 90 Rally Spec (Sold) |
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26th Mar 2020 2:52pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240 
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That's fascinating. Where did it come from? Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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26th Mar 2020 3:12pm |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 567
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I've said before on the disco forum the T5 platform would have been perfect for the New Defender. It's paid for itself many times over, is very capable and the production line is/was there already. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE
RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten |
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26th Mar 2020 3:56pm |
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| Tim in Scotland Member Since: 23 May 2007 Location: The Land that time forgot Posts: 3750 
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Maybe this sums it up........... a replacement Defender was a vanity project for the boss stylist before he retires or goes to work for BMW who badly need his services to improve their recent efforts...... Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed! |
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26th Mar 2020 4:36pm |
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| adolfy Member Since: 01 Dec 2016 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 58 
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Actually I care. I have had Land Rovers in my blood since I was a very young child and there was always a Land Rover product to aspire to. I have owned all of their products up to and including the L322 Range Rover, which was a real disappointment, reliability wise. I still own four but will never buy a new vehicle from them, as after owning all the others, the only two models that I really enjoyed were the Range Rover classic and the true Land Rover, Series 1 to the Defender. Land Rover no longer manufacture anything that I would buy, the Pretender and all of their current range are totally uninspirational designs, if design is the correct word. Without a doubt the rot started when Tata acquired them.
Jon Land Rover 1950 series 1 Land Rover LWB 1967 series 2A Land Rover SWB 1980 series 3 Land Rover 110 Defender 2013 |
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26th Mar 2020 6:56pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3334 
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Could you explain to me RDR or anyone, what the T5 platform is / was? Is it the Disco 4 floorpan ? (sorry to sound thick, but I was always told that there is no stupid question, although I am always willing to try  ) |
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26th Mar 2020 8:50pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240
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T5 is the underpinnings of Discovery 3/4 and Range Rover Sport. It's not just a floor pan but encompasses the chassis, suspension and drivetrain. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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26th Mar 2020 9:25pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3334
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Thanks Land Rover Anorak. And I thought a T5 was a VW
That makes absolute sense. Why reinvent the wheel if you don't need to? |
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26th Mar 2020 9:38pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240
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There are quite a few problems with re-using that platform. Whilst it's tried and tested, in automotive terms it's old. It makes for a heavy vehicle, which is one of the few issues with the D3/4. It was also invented in a time before the drive towards electric vehicles and undoubtedly couldn't be adapted to suit that new reality. And then, maintaining that production line alongside those of newer platforms means a lot more factory space than building different variants on the same line. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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26th Mar 2020 9:48pm |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1350 
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The DC100 was planned to use the T5 platform, the concept was panned by almost everyone and put on hold.
By the time the design was rehashed Discovery and Range Rover Sport had moved on to another platform and T5 was obsolete. It's ironic that the criticism of the styling caused the seperate chassis (body on frame) construction to be dropped in favour of a monocoque design. There was at least a small chance of a pickup version of the DC100 while it had a chassis. |
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26th Mar 2020 10:08pm |
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| RDR Member Since: 27 Apr 2018 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 567
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This is the T5 bit...
Valid logic above but maybe if they had done it 10 years ago the inevitable transition to a unibody would have been a smoother process. LR could have gone curve ball and used something like the rivian skateboard then I would be really excited! Click image to enlarge 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE RR MY23 HSE PHEV D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold D4 MY12 HSE - Gone D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten |
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26th Mar 2020 10:24pm |
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| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3245 
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Well at least I’m not alone here
I’ve always been a Discovery man, my 5 was nice but just lacked the look and feel of the 3 and 4. Still prefer the look of the 3 over the 4. Can’t wait to get rid of the Velar, don’t get me wrong it’s great to drive and I do like it but it’s not really me, jumping into the new Defender it just felt right. |
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26th Mar 2020 10:56pm |
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