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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
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United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
March 2018 article... things move on quite quickly...
Post #814366 9th Feb 2020 5:54pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3328

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
oneten110 wrote:
I am surprised that the gummerment hasn't made it mandatory for all new houses to have solar panels fitted to the roof, plus any development of say more than 100 dwellings has to have a wind turbine.
With regard to Ev, in particular the Nissan leaf, new batteries seem a bit on the expensive side
https://electrek.co/2018/03/26/nissan-leaf...t-program/


I work in new building design (I'm not an architect) and it amazes me that they haven't made PV panels mandatory on new builds (where it is practical). I seemed to recall there are a few countries where this has been made a regulation.

Where I think we missed the boat is on large industrial buildings - big metal sheds. You see them everywhere. Supermarkets, DIY Stores, industrial estates by the dozen. Big large expanses of roof which would be ideal for electrical generation. Structurally, not sure if this would be practical but I believe they are a missed opportunity. Normal houses don't have a lot of roof area, in comparison, to make them as useful.

Small wind turbines don't seem to be workable. The units use more energy to make and install than what they save in their expected operational life. Wind turbines are now built as large as possible so they are most efficient. Limited only by the ability to transport the blades.

This was an interesting read:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51325101

I suppose they are cheaper to get rid of than a nuclear power station Rolling Eyes

Sadly, I hate to see them, but offshore wind farms are much more reliable and efficient than anything mounted on land. Just a bit of an issue if you need to do maintenance.
Post #814399 9th Feb 2020 7:32pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
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United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
Quote:
Where I think we missed the boat is on large industrial buildings - big metal sheds.

I'm overseeing a project to build a new industrial estate (I am also not an Architect Laughing ) and we're covering the roofs with solar panels. Mind you, what they will generate is a drop in the ocean compared to the load of the EV charging points that we're required to install Rolling Eyes

I'm also looking at a scheme to build a steel frame over the open top deck of a multi-storey car park, on which to mount more solar panels. The frame started off as an anti-suicide scheme but then I thought if we're going to build it anyway, perhaps it can be put to good use. I'm waiting for the structural calcs to come back to see if it's viable. If we do go ahead, the panels will probably be enough to offset the cost of running the LED car park lighting but again won't make a dent in the EV charging point loads that are also being considered. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #814406 9th Feb 2020 8:16pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3328

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
That's ideal, Darren. Pity there are not more people thinking this way Thumbs Up

You are correct about the EV charging points (I'm an Electrical Engineer). A quick charging unit needs a hell of a lot of PV panels to offset the current draw to just one of these bad boys, let alone multiple chargers.

I was looking at a primary school extension design and the load for the EV Charger requirements exceeded the electrical requirements for the buildings Shocked And there wasn't that many of them.

There are also problems with PV panels in rural areas where the supply cables are reasonably old. The panels are injecting the electricity back into the network at a time when most people are out at work and there is no load requirements. This creates major over voltage issues for the network operators. Some areas, they will not allow us to feed back into their network. So when you hear them telling everyone that they are ready for electric vehicles, that will probably be the managing director who will be retiring in the next couple of years with a massive bonus and his pension paid up Whistle

I know someone who got an electric car. He moved house and the cost of upgrading his mains supply to accommodate the charger was so high, he went back to a petrol engined vehicle. That's progress. He didn't live in the sticks either.

It really is the elephant in the room. Everyone is very positive from the Government downwards in getting us all going electric, but the consumer (or developers and then the consumers) are the ones who will have to pay up. It's not just vehicles. Gas is a thing of the past. Houses will be heated with air source heat pumps and we will all have electric cookers.

Electric storage is at present the only viable solution, but we are back to the battery problem again?

I would say buy a Generator, but that's not going to work either Smile
Post #814415 9th Feb 2020 8:42pm
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Avelingporter



Member Since: 25 Jan 2016
Location: Southampton
Posts: 397

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
Steam with coal power is the way forwards...
This is 121 years old, so very sustainable.
Imagine how polluting is is to make a whole vehicle compared to the particulate that comes out of the chimney.


Click image to enlarge
Post #814423 9th Feb 2020 9:59pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
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Rashers wrote:
This was an interesting read:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51325101

I suppose they are cheaper to get rid of than a nuclear power station Rolling Eyes


Good read. Thumbs Up

When they start getting rid of ones this big, the I can see those people who like to live in a container building an extension or annexe on the cheap :

Post #814444 10th Feb 2020 6:56am
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Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
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United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
Good article. Things are definitely progressing though. At first people were looking for immediate solutions to specific problems but now the complete lifecycle of that product or solution is being taken into account. There will always be an environmental footprint but the hope is that it can be made ever smaller. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.
Post #814445 10th Feb 2020 7:45am
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Slideywindows



Member Since: 09 Sep 2016
Location: North Essex
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England 
Rashers wrote:
The panels are injecting the electricity back into the network at a time when most people are out at work and there is no load requirements. This creates major over voltage issues for the network operators.


That ^ is good to hear from an Electrical Engineer.

I've been banging on about this for nearly ten years, since my panels were installed.

They chuck out loads of lecky when I am hardly using any, but hardly any in the Winter Quarter, when I need it the most.

Even in the long days of summer, the sun spends a lot of time in the east and west at both ends of the day (which is when I do actually use some electricity) and my panels face South.

Personally, I don't think we are anywhere near a "solution" for our power demands.


I guess we could actually try reducing our power demands and aspirational lifestyles. Whistle
Post #814475 10th Feb 2020 11:46am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Do you use your panels to heat your hot water year round?
Post #814485 10th Feb 2020 12:34pm
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
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There are special storage batteries to use with solar arrays, but they have a small storage capacity (about enough to watch telly in the evening and to boil a kettle once. Last time I was quoted for a single storage bank it was £11000 from Tesla Which makes any savings from FIT worthless. The owner of the farm at the end of the lane I live on has a huge industrial array of panels and a wind turbine....... the panels do well even in Scotland, but the turbine has never made anywhere near the amount of electricity that is was supposed to generate and was a waste of money. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #814487 10th Feb 2020 1:02pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3328

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
We had a company near us go bankrupt who supplied wind turbines for mostly farmers to put up in their fields for income. The output was nowhere near what was predicted and the inevitable happened.
The Tesla batteries are an interesting concept, but I believe insurance companies are not very impressed with having them inside the house. They are mostly installed a good distance from the house in a concrete bunker. A short circuit on a battery array of that kind of a size would be massive.

I think Slideywindows is correct. We might not like it, and it will probably be a vote loser to who ever is in government but we are just using too much of everything and we need to stop consuming.
Post #814495 10th Feb 2020 1:42pm
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3748

 
The local council has fitted Tesla power packs on the outside wall of every council house in the district, even houses that have minimal generation - might be something to do with government incentives but a very expensive way to save some electricity. I would have had them inside my garage if I had been prepared to pay put so much. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #814516 10th Feb 2020 5:19pm
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Rashers



Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3328

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
Councils know how to spend money Whistle

Meanwhile, they cut funding for the Old and the Disabled.

Sorry. I know its not quite as simple as that, but vanity projects such as these really irate me.
Post #814518 10th Feb 2020 5:30pm
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3748

 
And me and I bet most of the recipients of this largesse won’t be aware of the cost Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #814520 10th Feb 2020 5:56pm
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oneten110



Member Since: 02 Jul 2011
Location: Wish I was still in France
Posts: 741

United Kingdom 
Supacat wrote:
March 2018 article... things move on quite quickly...

So Nissan leaf vehicles no longer require replacement battery packs and the price has dropped to 50P? It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten
Post #815447 16th Feb 2020 4:35pm
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