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Bergos



Member Since: 08 Aug 2015
Location: Somewhere in Portugal
Posts: 86

Portugal 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 HT Keswick Green
TerraFirma LED Headlights TF711/TF710

Simple question - are they worth the money or not?
http://www.terrafirma4x4store.co.uk/LHD_LED_LEFT_HAND_DRIVE
How do they compare to Noldens used by LR in the special editions. I mean I know how the price compares, I am asking about the performance.
Are there any better options?
 Bergos

LR Defender 110 HT 2007 (2.4 Puma)
https://www.facebook.com/LR.Wanderlust/

Post #719239 23rd Jul 2018 12:44pm
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justinp



Member Since: 24 Jun 2016
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 165

United Kingdom 

They look identical to Guardian Automotive SB1LED units, which I have had fitted to my Defender for almost 2 years. The brightness and definition are excellent, which I’m comparing to xenon units fitted to other cars I’ve owned although I don’t have any experience with Nolden or the other well regarded brands.

http://www.guardianauto.co.uk/assets/Uploads/SB1LED.pdf

Guardian are a distributor so you will need to go through a retailer such as the link you supplied above. 2012 2.2 110 DC XS

Post #719326 23rd Jul 2018 8:04pm
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Stu_XS



Member Since: 22 Jul 2018
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 86

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

Possibly not in the same league but I have a pair of these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-Led-Headli...3379694876

Quality is excellent, perfect fit in the defender mounting. The rear casing is aluminium. They are DOT E marked.

I offered £67 delivered which was accepted and they arrived within a few days. Stu...

2013 Aintree Green 90 XS SW 2.2 Puma

Post #719333 23rd Jul 2018 8:43pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: huddersfield
Posts: 6345

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey

I think dot and e mark together is not legally possible so technically not road legal in the uk. Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html

Post #719344 23rd Jul 2018 9:28pm
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Stu_XS



Member Since: 22 Jul 2018
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 86

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

What makes you suggest that? Is there a reference anywhere to confirm this?

DOT is the US specification
E is the EU or ECE specification

Most of these type of lights claim to be DOT E, and some also SAE. The Terrafirma are DOT & E marked and I picked some other suppliers at random.

https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/other/mi...8w-on.html

https://www.masai4x4.com/Powerful-7-CREE-L...-p56723429

https://www.island-4x4.co.uk/da6283-lynx-headlights-p-34150.html Stu...

2013 Aintree Green 90 XS SW 2.2 Puma

Post #719364 24th Jul 2018 5:49am
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8562

United Kingdom 

Sorry Stu, but a headlight with just DOT, SAE and E + number in a circle is not approved for road use in Europe no matter what a seller might tell you.

Legal trail start with, Vehicle Lighting Regulations, move on to Approval marks act, then go to UNECE Regulations.

An approval mark for LED headlights consist of several parts

1). Country code which has done the approval, call wrongly an E marked,

2) Approval or amendment number

3) Actual approval number 4-6 digits

4) Light function code this is HCR for LED headlight, A for side light, RL for DRL

5) if plastic lens PL

6) Peak beam reference number, typically 12.5/17.5/25

7) LHT then an arrow


Now if the light is more then dip and main beam then it can be done under one approval number.


Light at front only white as steady light except yellow for old style French headlights. If you can change light colour illegal.

Halo turns amber and flash when you indicate high chance of being illegal! Definitely illegal with original indicator working.


If you want to know how good your seller of LED headlights is ask them to explain the markings and especially what numbers like 12.5/17.5/25 actually mean and the legal requirements for peak beam reference number.

If your headlights do not have the correct approval markings on then your vehicle is not road legal. Passing an MOT does not make it road legal. Non road legal vehicle makes serious problems with your insurance policy.


Brendan

Post #719382 24th Jul 2018 7:52am
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8562

United Kingdom 

Also many sellers claim that their lights are DOT approved.

Those sellers are again wrong as the USA Department of Transport (DOT) do not approve any lights. The DOT is the regulatory body which sets the standards but does not approve any headlights.



Brendan

Post #719392 24th Jul 2018 8:55am
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Stu_XS



Member Since: 22 Jul 2018
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 86

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

Hi Brendan,

Thanks for the follow up and detailed info.

I will check my lights when I get the truck back and see what the markings are that are on them. I'm quite comfortable, the seller warrants the product and I have PayPal in between to reclaim the money if needed.

What is interesting is the prevalence of these type of lights in the market place, some offered by otherwise well established and respected sellers in the Land Rover environment.

I have not wired the indicator halo as I think that is a style step too far and I also have a control module which dims the DRL when the indicator is on so as to comply with the legislation. Stu...

2013 Aintree Green 90 XS SW 2.2 Puma

Post #719424 24th Jul 2018 11:45am
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8562

United Kingdom 

Hi Stu, it can be difficult for me, I will readily give out information to the best of my knowledge so that people can make informed decisions about any potential purchase. What people decide to do is up to them.

Many items on vehicles have to be approved for use on vehicles on the public highway and have the approval mark on them.

For instance vehicle glass, most sensible people will want vehicle glass when it breaks to shatter into small 'safe' pieces rather then large jagged sharp pieces. If you look at any car the glass will carry an approval mark which consists of


1) Code for country which has done the approval (E + number in a circle)

2) The UNECE regulation number which is 43R

3) The actual approval number typically 4-6 digits.

You will also find the manufacturers name on the glass.

This can be easily checked out by looking at different vehicles as you walk down the street/through a car park.


DRL's must either dim or switch off when side lights/dip beam is on. Also when indicating although there may be a distance requirement as well but I can not remember exactly on that one.


Front indicators, you are allowed one per side at the front of a vehicle see Vehicle Lighting regulations. Another easy way to check have a look at front of road vehicle, be it a HGV, double decker bus, eurobox all have only one per side at the front of a vehicle.

Whilst multi function lights are allowed they must carry the correct light function code for all the functions but only have one approval number.

So a LED dip/main beam headlight with side light, DRL and indicator function would have the following codes on

1) HCR for LED dip and main beam

2) A for side light

3) RL for DRL

4) 1, 1a, or 1b for indicator dependent on distance from dip beam axis


You will have to disconnect the existing front indicator if you have an indicator in your headlight to conform to Vehicle Lighting Regulations IF the headlight has the correct approval markings on.


If you want to check on markings look [url =https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/codes/codes.html]here[/url]. For a guide to what regulations apply to vehicle lights look here For specific information look at UNECE R48 and for real detail test procedure for headlights look at UNECE R112.


Now just think of this if a headlight is claimed to be road legal/E marked but does not have the correct approval markings on so are not actually road legal can you trust anything else that is claimed about that light?

Now you may say that I have a vested interest as 4x4overlander only sells branded fully road legal fully approved LED headlights. To be brutally honest we would make more money per set of headlights selling cheap illegal LED headlights then we make selling brands such as Truck-Lite, Vision X and Noldens. We get offered cheap illegal LED headlights on an almost daily basis, we will not fit such lights to our own vehicles so will not even consider selling them.


It is a great pity that the recent revised MOT did not take all the wording of the EU directive on annual roadworthiness check as in that directive the headlight markings had to be checked to see if it complied with regulations but not in the UK MOT.


A bit longwinded but you can check for yourself about any statement I have made with regard to the regulations.


Brendan

Post #719457 24th Jul 2018 3:52pm
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Stu_XS



Member Since: 22 Jul 2018
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 86

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

Well it seems the plot thickens. The seller supplied me the following documents when I raised the question.



Click image to enlarge




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Click image to enlarge
 Stu...

2013 Aintree Green 90 XS SW 2.2 Puma

Post #720393 30th Jul 2018 7:04am
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Welshsurferdude



Member Since: 23 Feb 2012
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 1775

Wales 

I wouldn't worry about the DOT numbers etc rubbish, the rules aren't that tight here and most normal mot testers dont know the difference.

ive had the official LR Noldens when they first came out for 4 years and sold it with a truck, I now have cheap Chinese versions, they all come from there anyway lol Laughing for 4 years on two defenders and they are still working perfectly so for £120 4 years ago, they are doing a fantastic Job never failed me or any problems at all. apart from condensation in extreme conditions like floods or cold weather but bit of sealant sorted that once it dried out. they have been on for 120,000 miles over both trucks so they'll outlast the typical low mileage puma owner Smile Mr. Green Mr. Green


Click image to enlarge
 2008 Corris Grey 110 XS USW

2011 Black defender 110 XS Utility (Sold)

1996 Defender 90 300tdi Bali Blue NAS soft top (in build)

2002 Bonatti Grey D110 TD5 County Crew Cab (gone)

2004 Bonatti Grey Discovery 3 HSE

Post #720396 30th Jul 2018 7:16am
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Stu_XS



Member Since: 22 Jul 2018
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 86

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

To be honest I’m not especially worried anyway. As long as they are not causing any issues for oncoming drivers or any other hazards I’m quite cool with it. People are bolting on all sorts of aftermarket add ons to all manner of vehicles that are much more likely to be in contravention of the law. In fact I think pretty much anything that wasn’t on the vehicle when it was type approved for use in the UK would fall foul.

My point was really to share with others that not all things from China are without provenance. There is a lot to be said that you get what you pay for but equally there are a lot of items offered, and sold, for way over their real value.

I have seen the markings etc that Brendan refers to on some lights and I guess that is full compliance. Stu...

2013 Aintree Green 90 XS SW 2.2 Puma

Post #720400 30th Jul 2018 7:38am
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8562

United Kingdom 

The plot certainly does thicken. The description of that headlight in the ebay link does not match what is on that document! So what are the actual markings on the lens?

Now the Road Traffic Act says it is an offence to supply, fit or use a defective item. Would also suggest you check your motor insurance and keeping your vehicle road legal.


Brendan

Post #720525 30th Jul 2018 6:54pm
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