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suboffroader



Member Since: 19 Mar 2014
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 18

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Indus Silver
1960 series 2 109 - rear brakes
Been having a right game setting up the brake system up on my new project , every time the peddle is about 1/2" from the floor. this points to the shoe adjustments need setting. the fronts are spot on and have even had a visual on the shoes to confirm.

The problem is with rears i managed to get a visual and the leading shoes are almost touching the drum but the trailing shoe has to travel 10mm,

the wheel cylinders have no movement on the back plate , and the back plate type i have on the rear has no snails for adjustments, just a cone that's wound in or out which moves both shoes at the same time

something is amiss what I'm not sure. my thoughts are the following

wheel cylinders are LH and RH, are the mounting points offset. this may bring the wheel cylinder back central could some one confirm for me

also are the back plates handed i have not been able to confirm if they are as i have not been able to find any photos on the web. The back plates that are fitted are in the hynes manual,
is there a way to work out if they are LH /RH ie shod the cylinders be positined 11 oclok towards the front or rear of the motor?
Post #993260 19th May 2023 10:57am
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geobloke



Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4350

United Kingdom 
Hi suboffroader.

I am afraid I do not know the answer to your question, but I know a man who does Rolling Eyes

Mike at Britannica Restorations has a S1 and is at the moment rebuilding its engine. He is a top bloke and always willing to help out with just this sort of question. He might even pull the brake drums off for you in a video... Thumbs Up

britrest@britrest.com
Post #993265 19th May 2023 12:22pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
On a 109" with the early type of 11" rear brakes, which is what you are describing, the wheel cylinder has to float on the anchor plate (backplate).

You say that yours has no movement. Is this because you have fully tightened the nuts (in which case slacken them) or is it because the cylinder is a tight fit on the anchor plate? If the latter you may have the wrong cylinders.

Part two of the WSM (Part no 606408) for the SII & IIA is very clear on this. Operation H1-10B, to assemble, step 5, "Refit the wheel cylinder to the anchor plate. Leave the wheel cylinder fixing nuts one turn slack so that the cylinder is free to float on the anchor plate". The cruddy Haynes manual of course says none of this.

I suspect that your wheel cylinders are bolted tight eccentrically.
Post #993296 19th May 2023 3:47pm
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suboffroader



Member Since: 19 Mar 2014
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 18

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Indus Silver
I'll take a look this weekend and post my results
Post #993353 20th May 2023 7:15am
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suboffroader



Member Since: 19 Mar 2014
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 18

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Indus Silver
Thank blackwolf ,

I had another look yesterday, slackened the wheel cylinders off however no sideways movement is possible.

It looks like the back plate holes have been elongated to allow fitment of wheel cylinders

I am now confident that both the cylinders and shoes are designed for another back plate

Dose anyone know the part numbers for the cylinders required and the shoes?
Post #993456 21st May 2023 7:00am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I was about to start listing the part numbers but realised that it would be quicker, easier, and more useful to post an image of the pages from the parts book, see below.

Bearing in mind that for each side you are likely to need parts 5, 19, 24, 27, 28 together with the requisite fasteners etc, and I suspect that some of these are in the "unobtanium" category (and other in the "ridiculous price" category) you might want to consider replacing the rear brakes with the later and more conventional type, which have a fixed cylinder and twin snail-cams, just like the front brakes. These should be the parts list in the illustration for the Series IIA, although the numbers may have been superseded by now. The fact that you probably already have the later cylinders and shoes may influence your decision.

Hope this helps.



Click image to enlarge
Post #993467 21st May 2023 9:00am
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Devon-Rover



Member Since: 22 Jan 2015
Location: South Devon
Posts: 905

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Aintree Green
It might not work but I would be looking at adjustments before getting radical with the parts cannon.

Yes the Backplates as kindly shown above are handed.

The Cylinders are at the just before One o'clock so the pipe from the axle runs along and into the "lower" port of the cylinder and the bleed nipple is higher. if you get my description.

Aftermarket shoes are a minefield it seems they can be right or require a good chamfer of the leading edge to get them to be adjusted up nicely so you get a good contact on the drum.
Without physically looking at it, It does though sound like you could take a little off the leading edges and this would allow you to bring the adjuster up further before the shoe touches. Also can be found on Fb, Ytube, Insta & Twitter @4WDSouthwest
Post #993473 21st May 2023 9:52am
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suboffroader



Member Since: 19 Mar 2014
Location: leicestershire
Posts: 18

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Indus Silver
hi

as mentioned parts are in the £££ or unobtainable category, (wheel cylinders £90 - £110 each) thus i have decided to move to later the later type as the wheel cylinder and shoes are more affordable and easier to obtain.

now i just need to find a pair of back plates
Post #993585 22nd May 2023 8:17am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I think this is a sensible decision, the later design is generally more satisfactory.
Post #993592 22nd May 2023 9:39am
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