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audi1boy



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: Somerset
Posts: 21

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Barolo Black
Blowby 2.4 TDCI
Defender 130 2.4 TDCI 2008

Hi,

So after ongoing issues with my diesel pump and VCV on my 270,000 mile Puma I decided rather than fit a new pump to my extremely high mileage engine I would buy a lower mileage used engine. This may have turned out to be a mistake.

I installed the new(used) engine replacing clutch, pilot bearing, crank seal etc. On starting it ran fine. When I took for a test drive it seemed slightly down on power. So I pulled the engine oil filler cap off while running and low and behold it was breathing heavily and chuffing. First I was annoyed at the conman that sold me the engine as it was clearly a fault on the Defender it was removed from and was sold to me knowing it had an issue.

Anyway I pulled the injectors which where heavily cruded up which was a huge relief as it looked like injector seals rather than piston rings etc. I cleaned the seats, installed new injector copper seals, replaced rocker seals and installed new injector clamps bolts. Torqued the injector clamp bolts to the correct torque.

Started the truck and its still blowing away badly.

My gut feeling is it is the injector seals still but any other advice would be much appreciated.

I know this subject has been covered numerous times but struggling with it being anything else.

TIA
Post #979194 22nd Jan 2023 9:07am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 15306

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Depending on the age of the engine, it could be one of those with the defective PCJs in which case you can't rule out bore damage, I'm afraid.
Post #979205 22nd Jan 2023 10:21am
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audi1boy



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: Somerset
Posts: 21

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Barolo Black
Hi Blackwolf what is the PCJ?

Thanks again
Post #979206 22nd Jan 2023 10:28am
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audi1boy



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: Somerset
Posts: 21

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Barolo Black
Piston Cooling Jet?
Post #979207 22nd Jan 2023 10:29am
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audi1boy



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: Somerset
Posts: 21

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Barolo Black
Another quick question.....

How can I do a Pressure test on the engine that would ommit the injector seals?

If I pressure test it im guessing any leak could either be the injector seals or the rings with no way of differentiating?

I guess putting some soapy liquid around the injectors and turning over by hand may tell me if its the seals and not the rings?
Post #979208 22nd Jan 2023 10:32am
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 2347

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
Correct, PCJ is the abbreviation for Piston Cooling Jets.

Quote:
If I pressure test it im guessing any leak could either be the injector seals or the rings with no way of differentiating?


Can do a leak test through the injector holes? If the valves are ok, then all leakage is through the piston rings. If leaking through the valves, you would hear it from intake or exhaust manifolds, but the latter will not cause blow by. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #979213 22nd Jan 2023 10:57am
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audi1boy



Member Since: 11 Dec 2020
Location: Somerset
Posts: 21

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Barolo Black
Hi Dinnu,

Thank for the info.

What I was unsure of is if i do a compression test by removing the glow plugs, if it is low is there any way of telling if its leaking past the rings or the injector seals?

I will try tomorrow to remove the rocker cover and turn the engine over manually to see if there is any leak coming past the injectors. Fingers crossed there is.

Thanks
Post #979234 22nd Jan 2023 2:47pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 15306

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
audi1boy wrote:
Hi Blackwolf what is the PCJ?

Thanks again


Yes, as other have replied PCJ = piston cooling jet.

The early 2.4 TDCi had an issue with hysteresis with the pressure relieving valves in the PCJs which meant that in the event of excessive oil pressure (such as starting with a cold engine) the PCJs would close but not reopen properly. The result of this was catastrophic bore wear in a very short time.

There was a service instruction for this (replacement engine to be fitted) but as was (and remains) typical for LR and the classic Defender it was a "secret" instruction - you had to complain about your destroyed engine in order for anything to be done. After about three years LR withdrew the instruction on the theory that all the engines that were likely to suffer from the problem would have done so, so no further repairs would be entertained.

In practice, as a gesture of "goodwill" LR has agreed to discount the labour on the fitment of a new engine if you can prove that this problem killed your own one, but the downside is that it has to be a new engine supplied by and fitted by a main dealer. Inevitably this is many times more expensive than a new engine from another source fitted by a good independent.
Post #979242 22nd Jan 2023 5:07pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2021

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White
All 2.4 and 2.2 Tdci engines I have seen, from brand new to used ones up to 200Kkm breath heavily when removing the oil cap. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later
Post #979325 23rd Jan 2023 10:08am
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hornet



Member Since: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 207

Okay, that's a valid point, but in order to make it comparable, one should name a overpressure-value at this point, otherwise it's all subjective, unfortunately.
Post #979514 24th Jan 2023 9:36am
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2066

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
There are some injector seal before and after videos in this thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic74338.html
You could use this as a basis to compare how bad yours is chuffing.

There is a crankcase ventilation valve as shown here https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic79296.html > 110 XS Double Cab
> Instagram @simonlanemind
Post #979521 24th Jan 2023 10:33am
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spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 3927

Ireland 
blackwolf wrote:
audi1boy wrote:
Hi Blackwolf what is the PCJ?

Thanks again


Yes, as other have replied PCJ = piston cooling jet.

The early 2.4 TDCi had an issue with hysteresis with the pressure relieving valves in the PCJs which meant that in the event of excessive oil pressure (such as starting with a cold engine) the PCJs would close but not reopen properly. The result of this was catastrophic bore wear in a very short time.

There was a service instruction for this (replacement engine to be fitted) but as was (and remains) typical for LR and the classic Defender it was a "secret" instruction - you had to complain about your destroyed engine in order for anything to be done. After about three years LR withdrew the instruction on the theory that all the engines that were likely to suffer from the problem would have done so, so no further repairs would be entertained.

In practice, as a gesture of "goodwill" LR has agreed to discount the labour on the fitment of a new engine if you can prove that this problem killed your own one, but the downside is that it has to be a new engine supplied by and fitted by a main dealer. Inevitably this is many times more expensive than a new engine from another source fitted by a good independent.

Yep our 2.4 had it's engine replaced when six years old due to this. Land Rover paid 75%. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #980131 27th Jan 2023 11:54pm
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