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| DG123 Member Since: 29 Aug 2015 Location: North West Posts: 133   
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I have exactly the same problem so await comments with interest. As it has been remarkably dry of late, I’ve not investigated what I think may be an issue with the switch.
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic81007.html 2012 110 XS SW Orkney Grey 2003 D2 Td5 Black [SOLD] |
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31st Oct 2022 8:42pm |
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| Scotm Member Since: 28 Feb 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 644  
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Mine has started to do the same. I think the high speed brush maybe worn on the motor. You can get an OEM motor with rack cable for just over £100. I hope mine lasts to the spring before I need to spend the day replacing it.
I think you can also just replace the brushes but a bit of a fiddle and probably safer replacing whole motor. |
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31st Oct 2022 8:46pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434  
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I’ve recently noticed mine do the same thing - stop completely on high. No idea how long this has been the case because I never use that speed due to its cartoonish nature.
I’m hoping it’s just the switch… Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭 |
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31st Oct 2022 8:50pm |
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| MarkBrown Member Since: 03 Oct 2022 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 326 
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Perhaps it's the park switch, which if they're all the same is attached to the wiper motor.
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31st Oct 2022 8:59pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11240 
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Wouldn't it be a bit odd for the high-speed brushes to wear first as they don't see as much use as the normal speed ones? Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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31st Oct 2022 9:02pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16892 
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The high speed offset brush is always smaller, and since they are always in contact with the commutator it stands to reason they will wear quicker.
A further update, I've just dug out the original non-programmable Lucas relay that I replaced 12 years or so ago with the VW99 relay. I nipped out to see if it made a difference, and the wipers are now working normally, with slow and fast both ok. The obvious difference is that when I arrived home and first fiddled the relay was hot to the touch, now it is cold. I've put the old one in the cubby so if it happens tomorrow I can do an immediate swap. I don't know if the motor was hot before, it is quite likely. Evidently this is not an uncommon problem, I will let you know what I find. Incidentally the park switch (and the stalk switch) are the only parts I can't fit into the FMEA and I doubt it is either of them. |
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31st Oct 2022 9:15pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 19600
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If the relay is not going to be used any more it’d pay to open it up and have a look.
Over time the contacts in the relay maybe corroded, especially considering the amount of times the relay contacts will latch, unlatch, latch, unlatch and the arc that can develop on unlatching and voltage build up and EMF field from the coil. In addition the copper winding relay coil that activates the switching contacts maybe degraded reducing the electrical field created weakening the activation of the switch contacts. After all Defenders can get very damp. As the wiper motor is a big old lump and plenty of copper windings I’d imagine there would be quite an EMF field around it and voltage spikes due to its on and off nature. Though time consuming it’d be interesting to see a wiring diagram for the wiper relay, then with multimeter you could compare resistance against a new wiper relay especially on the coil. If the relay was overly warm and you’ve seen a difference when changing it’s likely the culprit. Wiring diagram and multimeter would be useful. I changed the park switch on mine this year, I notice the wipers behave slightly different now to as they used to. Typically an extra wipe on washer use which clear the extra water that maybe left where before the sweep was rapid to shut off where you’d often need to give it a manual single sweep without washer spray to clear remaining water. Sometimes the relay coil degrades, weakens the activation of the relay contacts and that brings about further problems with that. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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31st Oct 2022 10:16pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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Thats great if its just a relay problem. Any idea why it would only affect the high speed, when its the speed that gets used the least? Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭
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1st Nov 2022 7:31am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16892
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It's too soon to say it's the relay, more testing is needed, but it could be the relay.
I haven't taken one apart so don't know if there is a traditional moving-contact relay in there or if it is solid state, but I suspect the former, in which case it may be oxide on the contacts due to infrequent use perhaps. |
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1st Nov 2022 8:35am |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6484 
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The “relay” isn’t a true relay. It’s a timer for the intermittent function, and also runs the wipers when you wash.
Pre-1989 (I think) there was no intermittent, and no auto wipe when washing. The wiring on these has no timer or relay, the motor is wired directly to the stalk. The core wiring of the wiper system with intermittent is the same as that without, but with the timer added. When operating, the timer puts control pulses onto what would have been the park switch output wire to the stalk - this is how it operates the motor. When the timer is not being used (off, constant slow, constant fast) then the park wire is effectively direct to the switch - like the older wiring. Neither the slow nor fast motor feed wires go through the timer - they come from the switch direct.  1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SWLast edited by Martin on 17th Dec 2022 1:47pm. Edited 2 times in total |
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1st Nov 2022 8:51am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16892
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Interesting, points to motor or switch then.
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1st Nov 2022 9:54am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16892
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Martin, your post has prompted me to dig out the vehicle electrical schematics as well as those for the internals of the VW99 relay, and I see exactly what you mean. It conclusively rules out the relay as having any involvement in the slow fast-speed problem.
It is also interesting to note that connecting receptacles 2 and 5 in connector C0303 (the relay socket) will enable to wipers to function fully and normally as twin speed, self-parking wipers, albeit with no intermittent feature and no wipe-on-squirt feature. I have a feeling that this knowledge might be useful to file away in the "will come in handy one day" category. The slow fast-wipe problem therefore must be down to switch or motor, or, just possibly, harness. On my rainy journey to work this morning both slow and fast speeds were working fine. I'll see what happens on my way home. I've ordered a new OEM switch and motor on the principle that having the spare available will make the problem go away. |
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1st Nov 2022 5:27pm |
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| wyvern Member Since: 14 Dec 2009 Location: Cornwall Posts: 2070 
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building on from this tread ..
My wipers started to display some unusual aspects which had no speed difference on slow or fast wipe, and occasionally the wipers would not move properly - so some lubrication on the external splines made a difference but not to the fast wipe speed. Recently driving up to Scotland in a mini-monsoon, the passenger wiper started to ‘slip’ and would not return to the lowest point, then stoped working all together. The drivers side wiper worked fine and the fast/slow speed was then working normally. I think that the passenger side wiper wheel box or wiper link may have failed so will have to do some investigation to confirm, however does anyone know if this can be replaced with out removing the whole dash? Poppy - TDCI (Puma) 110XS 2.2 - Camper conversion - see the build here - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530.html Elgar -TDCI(Puma) 110XS Dormobile - now sold Devon & Cornwall 4x4 Response - DC126 |
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24th Nov 2022 4:37pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 16892
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It sounds as though either the wiper is loose on the spindle or the wheelbox has shed its teeth. Usually when a wheelbox wears it jams up and stalls the wipers, so it might be worth checking that the wiper hasn't just come loose on the spindle, since this is a much easier repair.
It is possible on a Puma to do this without "removing" the dash, although you will have to remove most of the dash fastenings, pull it away from the bulkhead, and work down the resulting slot. It is a lot easier than removing it altogether though since all the wiring etc can be left undisturbed. I have replaced park switches, replaced the motor, replaced the rack, and replaced the wheelboxes on various occasions all without actually removing the dash. I am pretty sure that someone posted a "how to" on the forum some years ago. |
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24th Nov 2022 4:49pm |
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