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110 Iain

Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 82

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Chawton White

Dead defender help

Dead defender latest issue went to start this morning turn key dash illuminates but won't turn over no clicks nothing swapped relays under seat no change can't hear or feel click from relaychecked battery also tried jump pack
Thinking ignition switch any thoughts frustrating car running fine when parked. Now dead only transport so keen to get going the evening any advice appreciated iain Endeavour To Persevere

24th Mar 2022 4:21pm

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2224

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Check the basics like earth... Also have a read of this thread paying particular attention to martins post of page 7

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic47486-90.html

Martin wrote:
If the rpm needle moves during cranking it probably isn’t the crank sensor.

The "shunt" is actually a bypass of the wiring of the immobiliser comms link through the instrument pack.

Land Rover did this themselves when the 2.2 was introduced.

You need to access the instrument pack connector, remove it and make a temporary link between pins 3 and 4 with the likes of a straightened out plain metal paper clip.

If it now fires, your problem is the immobiliser link and you have two options:

Send the instrument pack for repair of the soldering of the socket to the PCB (I can do this for you through my business) - or do it yourself if capable

Alternatively dismantle the connector and remove pins 3 and 4 (light green and grey wires to both) and join them permanently. Or if you like, cut the light green and grey wires where they enter the connector and join the loom sides together permanently, bypassing the cluster.

This makes the comms link between the 10AS alarm/immobiliser and the ECU a single wire without the instrument pack in the circuit (as per the 2.2).

The instrument pack will now log a fault if diagnosed as it does not see an incoming signal from the immobiliser, but this does not affect the instrument pack or vehicle operation whatsoever.

Also I feel this is NOT a security issue as the immobiliser itself is not bypassed, and this factory design of "in and out" wiring via the instrument pack only means that the engine won’t start if the instrument pack is missing.

However a missing instrument pack would be no problem for a thief as bridging 3 and 4 (on the now easily accessible connector) restores the link, which is clear from the wiring diagrams.

I fixed a 2010MY basic spec Puma with this issue last week. It would crank, and the RPM needle moved, but an signal tester showed the ECU wasn’t firing the injectors at all. Bridging 3 and 4 allowed it to start straight away

> 110 XS Double Cab
> Instagram @simonlanemind

24th Mar 2022 4:40pm

X4SKP

Member Since: 29 Nov 2013
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2287

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

Hello 110 Iain

Could still be your ignition switch... from my (limited) experience of a similar problem
(all be it an intermittent starting problem).

Full Dash illumination on Second positioning of key turn, then glow plug light goes out
Third position of key turn... = nothing (No relay or starter motor sound...nothing) culprit...
Lucus Ignition Switch

When you've been through this issue and proved 100% the fault and then see what appears to be the same or a very similar issue there is a tendency to assume it must be the same problem... but maybe not

For the money (£10-80 depending on you choice of suppliers) + a reasonably fiddley job you would then know and potentially rule out the more expensive items...

I now carry a spare as my original lasted to 30K

Good Luck...

SKIP
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html

24th Mar 2022 4:45pm

Balvaig

Member Since: 19 Feb 2016
Location: Fife
Posts: 719

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 Landmark LE Corris Grey

If you have central locking and key fob, try changing the battery in the fob.
A long shot but a simple job.

24th Mar 2022 5:04pm

110 Iain

Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 82

Thank for replys guys its a basic spec utility ino alarm or central locking replaced all earth cables about a moth ago starter about a year old bizzar how it can stop working overnight with no warning any fuses I should check car stuck up a steep driveway so can't bump at moment bit worried about taking it out on street incase I get it stranded Endeavour To Persevere

24th Mar 2022 5:23pm

110 Iain

Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 82

Update

Changed ignition switch tonight same won't engage starter when I turn to run position on switch and touch relays under drivers seat they are clicking is it possible starter motor can just pack in without giving any warning problems not sure how to test it Endeavour To Persevere

24th Mar 2022 8:32pm

Mo Murphy

Member Since: 01 Jun 2008
Location: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Posts: 2077

1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi HT Pennine Grey

Give the starter solenoid a few taps of the hammer.
Mo The Land Rover 90 - Many are called, few are chosen.

24th Mar 2022 10:23pm

Bradders130

Member Since: 27 Nov 2021
Location: Southampton
Posts: 75

2012 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Indus Silver

Hi 110 Iain, have you had any more joy with this? I have a similar problem with the engine turning over and firing, but then nothing, on my 2012 Puma.
I had a very interesting conversation yesterday with Ian from Remote Key who said that the black box AS10 immobiliser ECU, which replaced the green one, is awful and very unreliable. It’s another line of enquiry for you, and he does a replacement, for a price obviously. There seems to be an awful lot of owners on here who have similar issues with the AS10, IPAC or ignition switch being the culprit. A cold joint on the IPAC seems to be favourite.

6th May 2022 4:24am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16858

Problems disarming the Passive Immobilizer can cause these symptoms. An easy test is to disable the PI and see if that helps (using Nanocom or similar).

6th May 2022 2:16pm

Bradders130

Member Since: 27 Nov 2021
Location: Southampton
Posts: 75

Brilliant plan, thanks Blackwood. I’m going to try that next week when I get home - currently on holiday in Scotland.

6th May 2022 2:40pm

Bradders130

Member Since: 27 Nov 2021
Location: Southampton
Posts: 75

Blackwolf - sorry, my bad. Damn predictive text 🤨

6th May 2022 4:23pm

Honeyman

Member Since: 02 May 2022
Location: Haarlemmermeer
Posts: 58

2011 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Sumatra Black

Bit late to the party - but I’ve just gone through this no-crank scenario over the past couple of weeks (2.4 my2011 130)- chasing PI, 10AS, ignition switch, earths, fuses, relays etc… with no success, which was driving me nuts. I could start it by running an extra lead off the solenoid “S” stud and jumping it directly off the battery. Not convenient. Eventually opened up the loom to trace what I was convinced was a broken wire to the solenoid (brown, green trace) to find the culprit: loose loom connector at the rear LHS of the engine bay. See pic. Looked tight but wasn’t and didn’t feel like it would stay firmly closed. Pushed it together and cable tied it together - problem solved. Worth a check - takes seconds.

6th May 2022 7:22pm

110 Iain

Member Since: 11 Nov 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 82

My 110 is currently behaving on the starting issue as it was so eratic not sure what solved it or if it is solved as changed so many things Inc battery earth cables all relays starter ignition switch still Not sure about 10as had a look at it but didn't want to fiddle with it as car is currently starting my starting issues have lasted about 2 years can be fine for weeks then fail to start 3 or 4 times a day I live in hope it's sorted but stilll get into car each day expecting issue wish I could be of more help to those facing similar issues Endeavour To Persevere

6th May 2022 8:38pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16858

Bradders130 wrote:
Blackwolf - sorry, my bad. Damn predictive text 🤨

No problem at all, I guessed!

The appealing thing about disabling the PI is that it is such a quick and easy check.

On my Defender, if I have PI enabled and operate the driver's door electric window whilst the heater plugs are on, prior to starting the engine, the engine will not start. If I disable the PI and operate the window with the heater plugs on prior to starting, the engine will start. Repeatable and consistent, every time, but it took me ages to figure out why in hot weather the engine wouldn't start (I'd open the window whilst waiting for the HP light to go out).

Landrover of course told me that this was an impossible scenario!

6th May 2022 9:46pm

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