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solarider



Member Since: 01 Nov 2021
Location: Godalming
Posts: 13

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
Clunk when reapplying power under light load at high speed.
I have searched this, but can't find the exact problem listed, so apologies.

I have a 2014 110 2.2 Puma.

When it's under high revs all seems good. However, driving along relatively fast (maybe 50'ish) in 5th and 6th gear, if you ease off the accelerator and then reapply it, there is a noticeable 'clunk' and judder through the drive train. It does judder slightly under load in lower gears too and kangaroos a bit, but the 'clunk' isn't present. There's definitely something slack or worn down there, but I can't quite identify what.


If you reapply the power very gently (unnaturally so) or blend the clutch it seems fine. It is just when you apply power more abruptly (but not so clumsily as you might blame my driving style).

The clutch isn't slipping and it seems to be something to do with the drive itself. Maybe universal joints, prop shaft, half shafts, dif itself or something else. The previous owner used to drive everywhere in very high gears with high torque (setting off in 2nd habitually for example), so I guess that won't have helped!

Anybody experienced the same and what was the cure?

Thanks all!


Last edited by solarider on 25th Nov 2021 11:19am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #931054 24th Nov 2021 11:05pm
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West England
Posts: 18777

United Kingdom 
Probably DM’s and drive flanges, ‘fretting’ is a common issue on the splines. On mine the rear went first.

On there I needed new halfshafts and flanges to the rear. Costly! Or you can go 1 piece DMs instead on the rear.
To the front I could get away with drive flanges only, which I did.

Is there any kind of movement when the handbrake is applied that’s excessive? That’s a tel tale.
For play in the rear driveline.
Prop UJ’s are possible too as you say.

If you get under there checking the A frame for play can be worthwhile too but doubt so much it is that.
That’s the two links to chassis and ball joint, worth taking a look if you do take the trouble to have a look anyway. Diesels Lives Matter.
Like Thunder We Do Roll’
Post #931060 25th Nov 2021 12:33am
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solarider



Member Since: 01 Nov 2021
Location: Godalming
Posts: 13

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
Total newbie question sorry, but DMs?
Post #931061 25th Nov 2021 12:39am
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 831

United Kingdom 
DM = Drive member flange. It slides over the half shaft and bolts to the wheel hub. The splines on the drive member and potentially shaft can wear.

Both are a very easy diy replacement. On the rear most go for one piece half shafts
Post #931062 25th Nov 2021 1:44am
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5580

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
Don't forget Output Shaft. Type into the search box, huge amounts on what is a very, very well known fault on Pumas. Mine failed (for the second time) just a week or so ago. Based on what you're describing (speed, lifting off and reapplying power, blending the clutch) sounds very similar to how mine failed. Check the other aspects mentioned above (UJs, Flanges, Drive sgafts, A-frame etc) as they can all be done externally, and if they're all tight then OS may be the problem. What KM are you? If you're at 30-40k that seems to be when many fail. Good luck and keep us posted. Thumbs Up

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic62521.html?highlight=output

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic81155.html?highlight=output

https://www.defender2.net/forum/search.php...rch_time=0 Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #931070 25th Nov 2021 8:43am
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solarider



Member Since: 01 Nov 2021
Location: Godalming
Posts: 13

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
37k miles.

Local Land Rover specialist (Keith Gott) thought MT82 output without seeing the vehicle based on my description. That's big money and I was clutching at straws for something else cheaper!

The only thing they did say about the output was that it tends to be binary (i.e. it either works or doesn't) and doesn't give much notice, so what I was describing might be something else.
Post #931085 25th Nov 2021 11:18am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 14611

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
There are so many wear points in a late Defender driveline that a clunk such as you describe could be coming from any one (or more) of many places. The most common (not in any order) are:

    clutch driven plate (springs taking on a permanent set, usually indicated by a rattle if the engine is stopped with the clutch in)
    output adaptor shaft coupling (subject of many posts but more prone to total failure than knocking)
    transfer box intermediate shaft bearing wear (more likely to cause rumbling/shrieking noises)
    transfer box centre diff wear
    propshaft universal joint wear (four to choose from) or spline wear (two to choose from)
    differential wear (two to choose from) or imminent failure of front two-gear diff (bad news, can seriously affect control of the vehicle)
    rear drive flange/halfshaft wear (two to choose from, but the short side (offside) tends to wear quicker)
    rear "A"-frame ball-joint wear (a classic source of a knock when cycling the power)
    Suspension bush wear (more commonly rear but front can also cause knocking)
    rear damper bush wear/failure
    Something loose in the cabin rolling backwards and forwards (yes, this really has happened)

Diagnosing a particular knock under the conditions you describe, but doing so without access to the vehicle, is almost impossible I'm afraid. All you can really do is inspect everything, starting wit the easy ones and working through to the difficult ones.
Post #931098 25th Nov 2021 1:11pm
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Grenadier



Member Since: 23 Jul 2014
Location: The foot of Mont Blanc...
Posts: 5580

France 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Corris Grey
solarider wrote:
37k miles.

Local Land Rover specialist (Keith Gott) thought MT82 output without seeing the vehicle based on my description. That's big money and I was clutching at straws for something else cheaper!

The only thing they did say about the output was that it tends to be binary (i.e. it either works or doesn't) and doesn't give much notice, so what I was describing might be something else.


Had you posted this after my first OS failure I'd have agreed. But this time round the failure was exactly as you describe up to the point drive became almost impossible and I limped 10k in third gear with serious feathering of the clutch. But the day before I'd driven 500 kms round trip on the motorway. But the previous few weeks had been ever greater clunking on pick up. I knew it wasn't UJs (checked), I knew it wasn't half shafts (changed two months ago), but it was such a gentle worsening situation I thought it was the clutch rather than the OS.

You can see from my post (first link I sent you) that I was wrong. Big Cry Monsieur Le Grenadier

I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list.....

2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey
Post #931101 25th Nov 2021 1:59pm
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solarider



Member Since: 01 Nov 2021
Location: Godalming
Posts: 13

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
Just resurrecting this with a little more info having crawled under the car. Front prop shaft emerging from the final drive/front dif has quite a bit of play. The rear is sold as a rock. Would this give any further clues?
Post #952885 18th May 2022 5:18pm
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custom90steve



Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West England
Posts: 18777

United Kingdom 
The most significant improvement I found with mine was drive member replacement and universal joints replacement on prop shafts. Diesels Lives Matter.
Like Thunder We Do Roll’
Post #952889 18th May 2022 6:38pm
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Co1



Member Since: 19 Aug 2018
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2909

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Loire Blue
solarider wrote:
Just resurrecting this with a little more info having crawled under the car. Front prop shaft emerging from the final drive/front dif has quite a bit of play. The rear is sold as a rock. Would this give any further clues?


Do you mean play in the prop bearings/up’s, or just slack in the drive line? If you take the hand brake off on a level surface of course, do you get similar slop in the back when you twist the prop? If so, it’s “normal”. Mine clunked like hell until I had the clutch changed at 75k or so and it’s been smooth as silk since. I’d done drive members, a frame ball joint and pretty much everything else. If you get a clutch rattle when depressed it’s likely the springs are knackered so are providing no damping as you come on and off the power. Mine is a MY13 90. Instagram @richmond_custom
Post #952894 18th May 2022 8:11pm
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Smyles_



Member Since: 26 Aug 2018
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 479

Scotland 2008 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Cairns Blue
Check the prop yoke and flange. I had a similar clunk and small jolt that would occur when changing gears and a smaller clunk on lift off. My yoke had eaten away the flange and I'd let it go on for too long so escalate rapidly. Was a cheap fix Very Happy Stuart


Cummins 130 Build Thread
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04 110 Double Cab - Black (gone)
58 130 Double Cab HCPU - Cairns Blue
Post #952922 18th May 2022 11:02pm
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