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DiscoStu



Member Since: 30 Jun 2007
Location: London/The far north
Posts: 253

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black
MY13 Immobilser, EKA & Nanocom

Hi all, I need some advise from those that know better, if anyone can help.

Original fault - both key fobs and car battery flat, key fobs have lost sync with immobilser

Actions taken - new car battery (original would not hold charge), key fob batteries changed, but obviously now won't sync.

Current status - I have entered the EKA code and the car accepts it (blips the horn at end of sequence and prevents the alarm horn from sounding when the door is opened, enables central locking to work with the key), but it does not allow me to start the car. It does start to turn over and sounds as though it is going to run but then cuts out within a second. Is this indicating a fault with the immobilser?

With the Nanocom - it won't talk to the 10AS, presumably because it is immobilised, in either key position I or II either before or after EKA entered.

Is there anything I have missed? From reading up on various sites it seemed that entering the EKA would temporarily enable the immobilser and allow the Nanocom to talk to it, but it's proving more problematic than that!

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. My Disco 'best bits'

Defender 110 XS CSW 2013

Post #918330 23rd Aug 2021 3:27pm
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glpinxit



Member Since: 31 Jul 2010
Location: Herts
Posts: 128

United Kingdom 

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic76578.html - note that this is only applicable to the alarms that feature the two-button fobs with the big chrome strip on one edge. Cheers, Guy.

Post #918334 23rd Aug 2021 3:47pm
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DiscoStu



Member Since: 30 Jun 2007
Location: London/The far north
Posts: 253

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black

Yes, I've got the older type My Disco 'best bits'

Defender 110 XS CSW 2013

Post #918336 23rd Aug 2021 3:51pm
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wyvern



Member Since: 14 Dec 2009
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 1788

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Firenze Red

Have you got both keys & Fobs close to the steering wheel when trying to sort the car ??

If so - take one set away and then try again - the fobs have a sensor in them that the dash needs to read when starting and both together can stop the vehicle starting!

I had this issue the day I was selling my previous 110 and had put both set of keys on one ring so as not to forget to give them to the new owner ... I had a fun five mins working out that the keys were the problem and all was good after I put one set in the cubby box ..

Thumbs Up Poppy - TDCI (Puma) 110XS 2.2 - Camper conversion - see the build here - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530.html
Elgar -TDCI(Puma) 110XS Dormobile - now sold
Devon & Cornwall 4x4 Response - DC126

Post #918341 23rd Aug 2021 4:32pm
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 496

United Kingdom 

If yours is a 2013 defender you will very likely have the first version of the ALM (Alarm Locking Module) ECU not the 10as . To check remove drivers footwell speaker and look upwards under your dash with your head just above the peddles. If the unit is black it’s the early ALM not a 10as which is green

These early ALM ECU’s with a serial number beginning with a CH, paired with the old style Lucas fobs, not the chrome striped ones.

The CH serial number ALM ecu has an issue when the main battery fully drains . As it gets to a very low voltage it can corrupt the ALM ECU’s software.This may well be your problem.

Read this https://remotekey.co.uk/land-rover-keys-re...larm-ecus/

There is a latter version of the Nanocom software that will talk to the ALM ECU but remote key say that using any diagnostic tools will corrupt the ALM module and they won’t be able to fix. I raised a question with black box solutions(nanocom vendor) on here on this subject but have not received a reply.

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic68425.html

Hope this is of help and hope this is not the issue, but it has happened to others when main battery fully drained and a known issue with the ALM ECU

Added link to explain the brownout problem https://www.m1n1.de/en/alm_ch12_immobilizer/

In the last post on this thread macfrank advised the brownout does not impact the latter DH serial number ALM ECU’s , the ones with the latest fobs with silver strip , separate RF receiver used on 2014-2016 defenders. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic76578.html

In essence it’s a problem for vehicles made between 2012 and 2014 which ALM ecu’s With serial numbers beginning with CH .

Post #918368 23rd Aug 2021 7:01pm
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DiscoStu



Member Since: 30 Jun 2007
Location: London/The far north
Posts: 253

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black

Very informative, thank you. Yes, I have the older version. I’ll take a read of the other threads you’ve linked. My Disco 'best bits'

Defender 110 XS CSW 2013

Post #918445 24th Aug 2021 5:17am
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DiscoStu



Member Since: 30 Jun 2007
Location: London/The far north
Posts: 253

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black

Thanks Ian - seems like remotekey is the way to go

I presume this means that the Nanocom cannot talk to the ALM in the same way it can with the AS10? My Disco 'best bits'

Defender 110 XS CSW 2013

Post #918454 24th Aug 2021 6:34am
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DiscoStu



Member Since: 30 Jun 2007
Location: London/The far north
Posts: 253

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black

wyvern wrote:
Have you got both keys & Fobs close to the steering wheel when trying to sort the car ??


Hi Wyvern

The EKA process tells you to remove the fobs and keep them away, so definately not this Thumbs Up My Disco 'best bits'

Defender 110 XS CSW 2013

Post #918482 24th Aug 2021 9:36am
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 496

United Kingdom 

DiscoStu wrote:
Thanks Ian - seems like remotekey is the way to go

I presume this means that the Nanocom cannot talk to the ALM in the same way it can with the AS10?


That’s correct. The nanocom can communicate with the last “DH version “ of the ALM ECU with the latest version of their software which you would need to update your nanocom unit with. It’s a free download. However I’m not sure if it can communicate with the earlier CH serial number version of the ALM ECU, hence my post to BBS spy (nanocom rep on here) asking him, unfortunately he has not responded. As the ALM ECU’s are different to the 10as the communications and software are different so it’s hard to know what features are supported as nanocoms documents are a little vague on it. again that was in my post to bbs spy that I linked to earlier

Nanocom doc on ALM ECU.
https://www.nanocom-diagnostics.com/downloads/preview/alm-ecu

I think it would be worth contacting Nanocom direct and asking them if they support the CH and DH versions of the ALM ECU and if your issue can be resolved by the nanocom, or as remotekey infer that using any diagnostic tools will render the ALM unrepairable by them.
Also give remote key a call, I understand they are very helpful.

To be honest landrover should issue a recall to get this addressed as it is a known fault with their CH serial number ALM units which renders the vehicle unusable if a battery drains, or potentially is just disconnected! it only affects a relatively small number of vehicles produced between 2012 and 2014 and can be rectified by changing to the DH version of the ALM ECU so would not be a huge cost to them. Noting they charge about £700 + programming (according to remotekey) to change to a DH ALM unit with separate RF receiver and new fobs, however that’s price, not cost to them.

Post #918510 24th Aug 2021 11:45am
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 496

United Kingdom 

DiscoStu wrote:
Thanks Ian - seems like remotekey is the way to go


I would call them, thing to double check is if you end up needing their full replacement is do they now have the components that allow the alarm to function as well as the central locking and immobilisation ? They state on their site that they we’re waiting for the components to enable the alarm function. Else you won’t have a working alarm.

Is their new uniit unaffected by the brownout issue of the ch ALM ECU ?

Also worth a punt and calling landrover to highlight the know issue and seeing if they will address it free of charge or at a significantly reduced cost to you.

Post #918515 24th Aug 2021 12:20pm
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DiscoStu



Member Since: 30 Jun 2007
Location: London/The far north
Posts: 253

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Santorini Black

Almost tempted to upgrade to the latest LR version, or get the version without immobiliser and fit an aftermarket version. My Disco 'best bits'

Defender 110 XS CSW 2013

Post #918536 24th Aug 2021 2:08pm
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DeeEss



Member Since: 30 Apr 2015
Location: Zürich / Oslo
Posts: 249

Norway 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey

Does anyone know if the Nanocom can program the DH (last) version of the ALM? Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭

Post #925482 13th Oct 2021 9:14am
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Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 496

United Kingdom 

As per my post 4 up from this the DH ALM ECU is configurable with a nanocom with the latest firmware v1.35. See below. The DH version is the one with the Lear fobs

Changes incorporated in this release:

Vehicle specific:
NEW - Defender PUMA ALM support (New Black ALARM ECU)

- Events reading and clearing
- Settings read and write
- Output control
- Utility - OLD (Lucas) and NEW (Lear) FOB type learning now supported.


There is also a beta v1.36 version, this provides

Vehicle specific:
NEW - Defender PUMA ALM

- Added FACTORY RESET button for ALM settings page, useful when programming keys wont start or any in many immobilization cases when ECU is not responsive to some commands.

Bugs & fixes:
Fixed typos and improved messages on the ALM keylearn page.


However how well this works is debatable, a member on here had an issue with indicators not blinking when setting the alarm, this is configurable so they used the nanocom with version 1.35 to toggle them do so , plus they also did a learn on the fobs as well. This worked but the engine became immobilised.
Not a good outcome !
now the update in v1.36 may well address this issue as I think the connection between the ALM ECU and the engine ECU needed to be reset following a fob learn and v1.35 did not have that option.

My concern is i now don’t have confidence in using the nanocom to configure the ALM ECU as it may well leave the vehicle immobilised.

Hence the question that I raised with BBS spy to get a better understanding on ALM support , that I note you have just added to Thumbs Up

Post #925497 13th Oct 2021 12:44pm
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