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walfy



Member Since: 29 Aug 2007
Location: Frome
Posts: 2304

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
WHAT TO DO

I'm ordering a new Defender. But need to sell my current 110 USW to fund it, or part of it.
With current lead times being 9 months ish.
Do I sell my Defender now and bank the money, and buy a cheap runaround? Or do I hold on to it and hope prices stay buoyant and sell closer to delivery date but then run the risk of the bottom falling out of the market.
The inner me says sell now and sit on the money but then I have the issue of a huge chunk of money sat in the bank at year end which the tax man will want a nice big chunk of.

What would you do and why? 110 USW
RRE HSE Dynamic

Polaris RZR 900XP

Post #921442 14th Sep 2021 3:01pm
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 2921

Put it through WBAC - that will give you an idea of what the auction world is paying for them, if it suits you sell to them to avoid wheelkickers calling at your house. They own Cinch too so buy a cheap runabout while you wait. .
WBAC is paying out over the odds to get their hands on New Defenders. My L663 110 D240 was revalued this morning - up another £500 in a week and now in profit after taking into account the A/T tyres , front bash plate, boot mat and clear gloss wrap I had put on mine. Epsom Green Tdi300 County HT is now an SW
Defender D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now with a host of accessories

Post #921462 14th Sep 2021 6:06pm
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DSC-off



Member Since: 16 Oct 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 979

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

If it was me,

Sell the Defender now for the right price, or hold out until a good offer was made. No rush.
The last 18 months have been very unpredictable, who knows what the next year will bring?
Hold on to the money as long as you can, somewhere that it might earn a little interest.
Pay the smallest deposit possible to a car manufacturer that is quoting 9 months delivery but isn't guaranteeing anything.

Buy a cheap sports car or something nippy in the meantime, have some fun.

Post #921518 14th Sep 2021 10:03pm
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BRUNEL1



Member Since: 22 Oct 2020
Location: North Somerset
Posts: 27

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Fuji White
Re: WHAT TO DO

walfy wrote:
I'm ordering a new Defender. But need to sell my current 110 USW to fund it, or part of it.
With current lead times being 9 months ish.
Do I sell my Defender now and bank the money, and buy a cheap runaround? Or do I hold on to it and hope prices stay buoyant and sell closer to delivery date but then run the risk of the bottom falling out of the market.
The inner me says sell now and sit on the money but then I have the issue of a huge chunk of money sat in the bank at year end which the tax man will want a nice big chunk of.

What would you do and why?


I might have missed something, but what has the tax man go to do with it? You either owe tax or you don’t. The amount you have in the bank is irrelevant (except from the perspective of your ability to pay any tax owed). What am I missing?

Post #921534 15th Sep 2021 12:25am
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lord-haggis



Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 353

United Kingdom 

(I'm not an accountant) but I'm guessing this is a business sale so subject to corporation tax? As otherwise theres no CGT to pay on gains from personal sales of cars as they are mechanical items, same for watches as far as I have read in the rules. Belize Green TD5 110 Double Cab aka Le Farm Truck

Post #921549 15th Sep 2021 8:03am
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 2219

United Kingdom 

AS above, a lot of USW were bought as company vans, this allows the price of the vehicle to be written off against tax over a number of years (or all in 1 hit and some this year!).

Given the current high value of these vehicles, if you have something on your books that has a very low book value but you sell it at (the higher) market value, the tax man wants his share of the difference (19% of it). The VAT man will also want his VAT back on the sale price if that was reclaimed on the original purchase 


Last edited by camelman on 15th Sep 2021 10:08am. Edited 2 times in total

Post #921550 15th Sep 2021 8:10am
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BRUNEL1



Member Since: 22 Oct 2020
Location: North Somerset
Posts: 27

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Fuji White

Got it, thanks

Post #921552 15th Sep 2021 8:18am
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lord-haggis



Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 353

United Kingdom 

Markets are fickle, but surely it’s going to be better to hold out until you need to sell also given production delays etc you could be looking at a longer wait given then de slotted all the 90 HTs from production Belize Green TD5 110 Double Cab aka Le Farm Truck

Post #921553 15th Sep 2021 8:19am
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scotty38



Member Since: 21 May 2011
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 539

England 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Orkney Grey

What am I missing here and made up numbers to show my query?

Buy a car for £50k
Sell it for £60k
£10k profit
Buy a runaround, say £5k
Wait a year, 18 months and buy another Defender when they're available
If they're still £50k then you have a £5k profit and a runaround to sell/use
What happens if they're £60k plus, what has been the gain

Apologies for my possibly simplistic view but other than if you bought a Defender to sell at a profit then what (much) is to be gained in this process?

Post #921567 15th Sep 2021 9:38am
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AMBxx



Member Since: 24 Jul 2016
Location: York
Posts: 790

United Kingdom 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

camelman wrote:
AS above, a lot of USW were bought as company vans, this allows the price of the vehicle to be written of against tax over a number of years (or all in 1 hit and some this year!).

Given the current high value of these vehicles, if you have something on your books that has a very low book value but you sell it at market value, the tax man wants his share of the sale price (19% of it). The VAT man will also want his VAT back if that was reclaimed on the original purchase


Don't forget - that crappy runaround that only costs £5k may have originally been worth £20k. The company car tax will be based upon the original £20k, not the £5k.
The VAT's not relevant - it will be sold to the dealer with VAT, so that's what's paid. Nothing to do with the original VAT being repaid.

Post #921570 15th Sep 2021 10:03am
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 2219

United Kingdom 

AMbxx. my point was that with the later USWs being worth more now than they were new, a USW with a 'street' sale value of say £30000 today would only result in just over £20k going back to the business seller after taxes.

Assuming the vehicle had effectively been written off against tax over the last 7 years, selling the vehicle (either to a dealer or a private individual) would result in a £5k VAT liability to the seller and a corporation tax liability on the 'profit' of £4750 (£25k x 19%) 

Post #921572 15th Sep 2021 10:21am
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walfy



Member Since: 29 Aug 2007
Location: Frome
Posts: 2304

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

Sorry, I could of worded my initial post better. Yes the 110 USW is inside my company. I've had it from new, so despite it's "real" value on paper it's been written down to £3K value. If only I could buy at that.
Anyway, I've been quoted June for delivery of a new 110. Deposit is in.
So this bridges 2 financial years.
So do I sell early and sit on the money and the tax man take his chunk at year end, or do I sell in next FY and then use the money to pay for car.

Spoken to my accountant, if I sell now there is no way of sensibly "minimising" my tax return. So that means either taking the hit on the lump sum or increasing my deposit by this capital amount. Which to be fair, I'm not averse to.
I like certainty. If I hold off and seel after March 2022, will it be worth the same as today as it'll have a chunk more miles on the clock and another 6 months wear and tear.

My thought process was to sell now or in the near future, sit on the money until March30th and then increase my deposit by that amount.
Only downside, is LR have a chunk of my money for a car that is still 3 months off minimum 110 USW
RRE HSE Dynamic

Polaris RZR 900XP

Post #921708 16th Sep 2021 1:34pm
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pjm-84



Member Since: 12 Apr 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 152

United Kingdom 

Or make a contribution to your pension.

Same boat in March this year. Maxed out the company contribution and then LR brings out the P400 XS in April..... Censored

I've come to the conclusion I will let the order run. If it takes too long and goes into the next model year and they require additional monies (sufficent to annoy me) I will cancel.

Cant bring myself to buy the BMW X545E but I was googling s/h 5 series tourers last night and the classic Volvo R

Post #921711 16th Sep 2021 2:02pm
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walfy



Member Since: 29 Aug 2007
Location: Frome
Posts: 2304

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

Don't pay into a pension so thats a non starter.
I know it will run into the next MY and I'm hoping the cost increase isn't to big to annoy me or they reduce the spec to much. 110 USW
RRE HSE Dynamic

Polaris RZR 900XP

Post #921712 16th Sep 2021 2:05pm
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camelman



Member Since: 27 Feb 2013
Location: Peak District
Posts: 2219

United Kingdom 

@walfy, is it a commerical HT you're ordering then? 

Post #921713 16th Sep 2021 2:05pm
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