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Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.2. and 2.4 power difference.
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DEF4



Member Since: 11 Dec 2017
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 12

United Kingdom 
The original figures I quoted were obtained from the Land Rover Monthly Model Guide. I attach the curves for the 2.2 taken from a Land Rover 2013 Defender brochure. I don't have the equivalent for a 2.4

Click image to enlarge
Post #897144 10th Apr 2021 7:08am
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ericvv



Member Since: 02 Jun 2011
Location: Near the Jet d'Eau
Posts: 5816

Switzerland 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black
As per all my Defender brochures from 2008 until 2015 model years, the 2.4 and 2.2 are clearly identical power and torque. That was also always communicated like that by JLR at the change from the 2.4 to the 2.2 Puma engine.
Both are 90 kW/122 HP with 90% of that available between 2200 and 4350 rpm.
Both have a max torque of 360 Nm at 2000 rpm.
The main difference is the engine compression which is lower for the 2.2. (15.5:1 for the 2.2 versus 17.5:1 for the 2.4)
You clearly notice that difference when using engine brake to slow down going downhill. The 2.4 has distinctly better engine brake power than the 2.2. The 2.4 has an electronic speed limiter to 132 kph, the 2.2 saw that increased to 145 kph.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o
https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I
https://vimeo.com/201482507
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw
Post #897157 10th Apr 2021 8:09am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge
Post #897160 10th Apr 2021 8:24am
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 421

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Leamreject wrote:
The dreaded DPF.....

DPF’s are only really suitable for vehicles that do long runs as they need to regenerate and burn off particulates. Not really ideal for most Landys.


Today most engines for construction and infrastructure works are equipped with DPF.

If a different torque was measurable, I'd check for EGR and turbo/intercooler first.

Looking at the two 110, I'm just wondering if their weight Will be comparable...
One naked and the other equipped with winch+bumper, roof rack and a huge cargo box.

It is no surprise, that the white one is sluggish
Post #897271 10th Apr 2021 7:35pm
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HardCharger



Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila, SFO, Amsterdam
Posts: 669

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
Supacat wrote:

Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge


So what's the sweet spot RPM to shift? 2,250 to 2,300 rpm to get the max power per range?

Or am I understanding the curves wrong? Question
Post #897370 11th Apr 2021 9:56am
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3141

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
I loved diesels that had a flat torque curve.
The tdci has the peak torque for a brief rpm range 😟
Personally, it feel like it needs a lot of gear changes to stay in the power band.

Interesting that the 2.2 and 2.4 have exact same characteristics. How is it possible with quite some physical differences between the two. I am not sure if I trust those charts. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #897374 11th Apr 2021 10:08am
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 421

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Don't forget the turbo and high pressure injection.

And if you really need 350 Nm, you'll do loads of gear changes.
If you just need the 290 Nm you can get from a TDI, you'll get these most of the time.
300TDI is a bit flatter, yes, because of its lower peak :
https://www.mdengineering.co.uk/international-hs-2-8l-300-tdi/
Post #897823 12th Apr 2021 8:24pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Dinnu wrote:
Interesting that the 2.2 and 2.4 have exact same characteristics. How is it possible with quite some physical differences between the two. I am not sure if I trust those charts.


Yes it does look suspiciously like the marketing team have just used the old "artwork" in the new model brochure.
Post #897872 13th Apr 2021 6:09am
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glpinxit



Member Since: 31 Jul 2010
Location: Somerset
Posts: 149

United Kingdom 
Dinnu wrote:
...
The tdci has the peak torque for a brief rpm range 😟
...


No, you are mis-reading the graphs as they have omitted the lower y-axis. The graph shows that the engine is producing at least 85% of maximum torque (>300Nm) between 1500rpm and 3000rpm. However I think that electronic jiggery-pokery limits this in all gears except 6th. If you want a sports car then it an odd choice to buy a Defender. Cheers, Guy.
Post #898138 14th Apr 2021 9:00am
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glpinxit



Member Since: 31 Jul 2010
Location: Somerset
Posts: 149

United Kingdom 
[duplicate post] Cheers, Guy.
Post #898139 14th Apr 2021 9:00am
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3141

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
I did notice that the scale does not start at 0, although I do not understand what that 80Nm is doing there on a linear scale!! Maybe the photoshop artist made a mistake because he did not know what the numbers mean?

What I say is that there is 42% reduction in usable torque towards the extremes if the rpm range. Unfortunately this drop is sharper as you go on lower rpm. Agree, Defenders are not sports cars, and that is exactly why it needs high torque, to tackle difficult terrain or for towing without the need to get the engine screaming and the clutch smoking. But luckily the tdci has the antistall, so what I just wrote is irrelevant, it revs the engine and eats clutches for you. We all know that once you shift in low range on a tdci, the rpm stays above 1000 once clutch is released. Im sure that JLR know what they were doing.

Edit. I realize that the photoshop artist masked the 1 from the 180Nm. Rolling with laughter 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #898143 14th Apr 2021 9:17am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16809

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Dinnu wrote:
...I do not understand what that 80Nm is doing there on a linear scale!! Maybe the photoshop artist made a mistake because he did not know what the numbers mean?


I'm pretty sure that the leading digit "1" was missed off and it should be 180, however it is interesting that it is the same on both sets of artwork and this suggests both re-use and shocking incompetence.

Edit - posted whilst you were editing your post! Rolling with laughter
Post #898144 14th Apr 2021 9:22am
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Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3141

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
Indeed Blackwolf.

Then the question is: which one (if any) is correct?

The map for the 2.2 (or at least the ECU) is something that JLR had tweaked. I am sure about this because I tried to connect Forscan on my 2.2 and unfortunately (depending which way you look at it) it was not detected as a Transit. Forscan does not work on 2.2, but read online that works on 2.4, though never tried myself. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #898164 14th Apr 2021 11:11am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Didn't Bell Auto take some baseline readings before remapping?
Post #898230 14th Apr 2021 4:27pm
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Julie



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: Nantes
Posts: 421

France 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
Dinnu wrote:
Then the question is: which one (if any) is correct?.


Hello boys, we're not in the 1950s. Automotive industries have changed ...

Both are correct. It's the electronic engine management making it possible Rolling with laughter
Post #898279 14th Apr 2021 7:30pm
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