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Mr Scrofula



Member Since: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green
Bulkhead rust - advice
Dear all,

I have a 2008 defender Puma, which I bought last year, second hand. It is in reasonable condition, and I am gradually replacing bits and looking to prolong its existence as much as possible.

There was some bubbling of the bulkhead around the hinge on the passenger side, which I thought I might get away with filling, but there was evidence of rust watermarks on the inside (which largely wipe off). Today I thought I would take off the hinge and investigate. The rust has mainly damaged the top 10mm of the bulkhead, but the 90 degree bit which abuts against the seal and windscreen frame has disintegrated. I am looking at bit of welding, which I can't do. I could order a corner replacement, and cut and fit the small section I need. The question is how much dismantling is required. I thought originally I could remove both hinges and the windscreen would lift enough, but I am not sure if there would be enough room, so loosening some of the bolts to the roof may be required at the front at least ?? Also does the dash and ducting need removing to avoid damage from the heat of the welding ?? In the past I have partially removed the dash to replace the wiper park switch, but did not have enough access to remove the ducting.

I could take to a professional welder, but not sure they would necessarily be happy to dismantle enough. I am not sure if there are any experienced land rover body work/welders in my area of Inverness, although there are a tonne of Defenders up here ! I have a friend with a stick welder, but not sure if that will give me the small precise welds to get into that area. Really need an experienced defender mig welder.

I have attached a couple of pictures. No other bulkhead corrosion on the outside.

Any advice ?

Cheers,

Mr S[/img]
Post #846739 28th Jul 2020 6:40pm
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Mr Scrofula



Member Since: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green

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Post #846777 28th Jul 2020 11:26pm
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
Oooh, that looks like somebody has already tried and failed to repair it and is unfortunately, likely to be a lot worse when exposed. The hinge block fixing holes should be tubed, for example.

The windscreen will lift off but there are two pegs on its' lower edge that engage in holes in the top of the bulkhead. To clear them, it's necessary to unbolt enough of the roof to allow the front edge to be lifted a few inches and propped. It's also very likely that at least the top part of the dash will need to be removed. How far you need to go with the innards need to be removed will depend on what you find as you go along, but it wouldn't surprise me if quite a lot needs to come out. This sort of repair is not a five minute job, I'm afraid. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #846796 29th Jul 2020 7:08am
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VVS210



Member Since: 12 Nov 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 946

United Kingdom 
If that is what you can see with the windscreen frame in place the chances are there is a lot more rust along the top of the bulkhead unfortunately. Would suggest that it is better to remove the windscreen frame & do the job properly now rather than just treat what you can see as it is, that rust has come from the inside outwards so there will be more that you haven't seen yet. Neutral
Post #846797 29th Jul 2020 7:09am
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Mr Scrofula



Member Since: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green
Thanks, it is as I expected. The tubes are there but may be a bit loose. Are they attached to the front and back of the bulkhead i.e. between the 2 skins. I saw a few pics of other peoples bulkheads during mid repair, and it looked like the tubes were supported by a plate on the inside. The repair corner panels that I have seen, don't seem to have the tubes.

I don't think anyone has done a repair before. there is no signs of filler etc. There was some mild corrosion of the aluminium windscreen frame, which I quickly wire-brushed off, and will get sorted when it comes to painting.

I will have a look round town today and brandish my photos to see who will take it on. I wouldn't mind having a go at the repair and welding, myself, but will save the learning curve for something less delicate (and visible). Probably need someone with a bit of experience to check out the inside for corrosion damage, although I think it was mainly surface rust only. I think it started under the seal, and the seal trapped the water and perpetuated the corrosion locally. I think any water inside would have evaporated rather than sat....I hope...

Will get the upper bulkhead/windscreen seal replaced at the same time, while they have access.

Cheers,

Mr S
Post #846833 29th Jul 2020 10:53am
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V8GPC



Member Since: 18 Jul 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 289

United Kingdom 
Britannica Restorations Ltd

this is part 2 actual repair very similar section to yours.

Post #846846 29th Jul 2020 11:54am
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LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11240

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Orkney Grey
Mr Scrofula wrote:
Thanks, it is as I expected. The tubes are there but may be a bit loose. Are they attached to the front and back of the bulkhead i.e. between the 2 skins. I saw a few pics of other peoples bulkheads during mid repair, and it looked like the tubes were supported by a plate on the inside. The repair corner panels that I have seen, don't seem to have the tubes.

The tubes should be attached at both ends. I think the idea with the repair panels is that you weld them to the existing tubes.

Mr Scrofula wrote:
I don't think anyone has done a repair before. there is no signs of filler etc. There was some mild corrosion of the aluminium windscreen frame, which I quickly wire-brushed off, and will get sorted when it comes to painting.

I only mentioned that because the line of 'bubbled' metal across the top from the RH end to the rust hole looked like a weld.

Mr Scrofula wrote:
I will have a look round town today and brandish my photos to see who will take it on. I wouldn't mind having a go at the repair and welding, myself, but will save the learning curve for something less delicate (and visible). Probably need someone with a bit of experience to check out the inside for corrosion damage, although I think it was mainly surface rust only. I think it started under the seal, and the seal trapped the water and perpetuated the corrosion locally. I think any water inside would have evaporated rather than sat....I hope...

Sorry to be the voice of doom but I think you're being optimistic, I'm afraid. Pretty much every account that you read of repairing rust of this nature says that it's worse than what you can see.

Good luck and let us know how you get on. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia


Last edited by LandRoverAnorak on 29th Jul 2020 1:48pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #846850 29th Jul 2020 12:03pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7664

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
i am afraid thats a typical LR issue. remove the windscreen and lift the lower screen/bulkhead seal and see what it looks like.

any decent welder will be able to repair it with some new sections welded in, i expect its corroded along the top towards the centre of the vehicle under the aforementioned seal. Cheers

James
110 XS Utility
130 Puma Station wagon/camper (in the making)
90 Puma Hardtop
Post #846856 29th Jul 2020 12:53pm
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Mr Scrofula



Member Since: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green
Thanks, I have watched most of his videos. He is very good and explains things well. Need to find someone similar to him locally !

Or set up camp in my friends garage with his stick-welder for a couple of weeks.
Post #846883 29th Jul 2020 3:31pm
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Mr Scrofula



Member Since: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green
Think I may have found a land rover enthusiast who has a good reputation doing repairs of this sort, who will hopefully pop round today to have a look.

Will keep you informed of the progress, and extent of the corrosion.

Cheers,

MR S
Post #846884 29th Jul 2020 3:37pm
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Mr Scrofula



Member Since: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green
Progress - diseased part excised !



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Post #849218 10th Aug 2020 10:28pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
Nice Thumbs Up how much did they charge? Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html
Post #849272 11th Aug 2020 8:50am
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Mr Scrofula



Member Since: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green
£300 - which for the amount of time to dismantle, prep, weld, paint, and reassemble is pretty good !
Post #849381 11th Aug 2020 8:45pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
Sounds good Thumbs Up Ray
My build thread
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic17615.html
Post #849391 11th Aug 2020 10:18pm
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williamthedog



Member Since: 29 Dec 2012
Location: south wales
Posts: 3441

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 PU Tamar Blue
Yes, that's a good price, I wouldn't bother doing it myself when it only costs that. Thumbs Up
Post #849402 12th Aug 2020 3:50am
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