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Stacey007



Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3225

United Kingdom 
Blow up Kayak for Highland lochs ? NC500

Ok so If our Holiday is on touring the NC500 I was thinking of a blow up Kayak for some of the lochs?


Few questions as I'm sure some of you have done it?


- Can I put a kayak in on a loch? do I need a permit / licence etc?

- Blow up Kayak? ok for this (just for pottering around) no-thing serious..

Was thinking 2 x 2 seater ones (as family of 4) life jackets, paddles etc (wet suits etc)

this sort of thing...issue I have assuming this is a good idea.... very little in stock and most not in stock until after we go !!!





https://www.nootica.com/sevylor-adventure-...01919.html


https://www.nootica.com/canoes-kayaks/infl...RkEALw_wcB





anyone?

Post #839223 23rd Jun 2020 8:07pm
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donmacn



Member Since: 07 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1093

I haven't done this with an inflatable one, but I've used my open canoe on quite a few lochs - inland or sea.

I think this is one of these things covered by our access laws, if you can get somewhere under your own steam, you'll be OK. I've certainly never heard any talk whatsoever of licence or permits for this sort of thing. There are some 'honeypot' camping restrictions now, to tackle the hooligan element, but that's further south in the Loch Lomond National Park, and nowhere near the NC500. There are probably even permits for powered craft on Loch Lomond.

Put a fishing rod in your canoe on an inland, fresh water loch, then it's a whole, massively different ballgame.

On the question of the inflatables, I've looked at them once or twice, as I wanted to get somewhere more remote (and island off an island where it would be too exposed to go round by sea) but never taken the plunge....pun intended!

A lot of SUPs are inflatable and pretty robust, so I think if you get the right thing you'd be Ok. Might be quite bulky and a bit heavy if you've a lot of other camping kit?

Edited to add that I've looked at your links. I've heard of sevylor before. Looks Ok. And finally, some of those spots will be relatively remote so your thoughts of lifejackets and thermal protection (suits and hoods) would be very sensible. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html)
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...

Post #839229 23rd Jun 2020 8:37pm
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jocklandjohn



Member Since: 16 Sep 2016
Location: Highlands
Posts: 45

Scotland 1989 Defender 110 200 Tdi HT Oslo Blue

What Don says.

Scottish Outdoor Access Code (and accompanying legislation) permits extensive "non-motorised access" to land & water. There may be some local restrictions where appropriate under H&S legislation (ie near dams, spillways etc) and also common sense precautions required where commerical boat use occurs in the same vicinity ie on some lochs and certainly on canals, but thats not a prohibition simply that you have to exercise care and not endanger yourself or anyone else.

But generally waterways & lochs use is permitted. Access to the waterway (ie over ground) is also permitted EXCEPT where you intend that access/egress to be through the immediate curtilage of a house (ie someone's garden!).

Also worth aquainting yourself with whatever local activities are going on ie fishing on certain parts of rivers so you can be aware anglers might have lines in.

Lots of info here: https://www.canoescotland.org/access-and-e...#gsc.tab=0

And PDF of Canoe Code here: https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/b9315d...eaflet.pdf

And Access Code here: https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/

Caveats - insects can be grim in calm conditions. Some of the bigger lochs can be very exposed and conditions can be unpredictable so watch weather forecasts. Lochs can be very cold too!

Otherwise its all good. The basic inflatable boats are ok for sensible inshore use and you can have a shedload of fun with them and see some astonishing stuff you'd otherwise miss.

Post #840671 30th Jun 2020 12:04pm
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wyvern



Member Since: 14 Dec 2009
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 1601

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Firenze Red

only thing to watch with the inflatable is that they are very susceptible to wind and wave... so be very careful where you paddle as it may be blown off shore and hard to paddle back if you are not a competent paddler.
It may be better to rent one when you get there to have a better craft to use and save you the cost and transportation issues.

Canoe, paddles, pump. lifejackets, seats ... the pile soon mounts up ..

but having you own craft gives you some flexibility to enjoy other areas !

Thumbs Up Poppy - TDCI (Puma) 110XS 2.2 - Camper conversion - see the build here - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530.html
Elgar -TDCI(Puma) 110XS Dormobile - now sold
Devon & Cornwall 4x4 Response - DC126

Post #840682 30th Jun 2020 1:07pm
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Stacey007



Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3225

United Kingdom 

Thanks all



Assuming Scotland is 'Open' we are moving around a bit over the NC500 and already have had to rearrange some accommodation as people have cancelled..

I just thought we are self sufficient having our own stuff, and if we only use it a little bit we can use it near where we live when back home.

I notice your point about the wind etc, and blowups being harder to paddle. I would go for ridged but double ones are huge ( as you know looking at your picture) then we will probably have a roof box. The biggest factor being weight I doubt I can get it up on the rack on my own and my wife is 5ft nothing with very little strength.


The idea of the blow up was they take up a lot less room and pack them away when not used.


Thanks Thumbs Up

Post #840690 30th Jun 2020 1:45pm
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frenchy



Member Since: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 128

I've tried both options.

Inflatables are great as they go away in the boot (although take up a lot of space)
Compared to a rigid they take a lot more effort to paddle, but with the exception of a machete attack, are pretty difficult to sink.....but they said that about the titanic!!
We had a Sevylor Colarodo double

A rigid (even a double) would be great in the water, and a dream to paddle compared to an inflatable.
However, with a Discovery, they are a right royal PITA to get on the roof of the car, strap them down etc.
Security an issue also.

We have a Perception Carolina (single) and a Necky Gannet double



Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge



If you are going to have a roof box, then roof mounted kayaks are probably a none starter 2000 D2 TD5 - ahhh bless
2006 D3 - no longer with us and sadly missed
1997 300tdi d90 - now with electrics that work!
- now with a brand new custom made soft top fitted
…...…...............….new chassis now all fixed and driving like new
2010 D4 alas no more, but a lovely colour (Nara)
2016 D4 still too shiny....but with a dead battery!

Post #840830 1st Jul 2020 12:48am
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wyvern



Member Since: 14 Dec 2009
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 1601

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Firenze Red

There is a technique to putting the boats on the roof and Ive had many years practice, and racing boat are much lighter than the tupperware tubs that are very popular ! Whistle

Racing boats are narrower (22’’ for a double) and fit in to V bars, however the plastic boats do sit nicely on their side with a vertical bar for stability leaving the rest of the rack free for top box etc.
Its all about compromise and priorities. - but it does not matter what you do - as long as you do it and have fun.. safely.
Thumbs Up



Click image to enlarge

Racing K2 - 22’ long and 20kg


Click image to enlarge

White water GRP and plastic boats .. - 15’’ ish - on our previous 110 (could carry up to 6 boats on here and often did !) Poppy - TDCI (Puma) 110XS 2.2 - Camper conversion - see the build here - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530.html
Elgar -TDCI(Puma) 110XS Dormobile - now sold
Devon & Cornwall 4x4 Response - DC126

Post #840853 1st Jul 2020 7:30am
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Stacey007



Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3225

United Kingdom 

I could take the Sankey but I didn't want to as this year we are not camping so should not need quite the same gear...


I was looking at the Sevylor Adventure Plus and also the Sevylor Wateron 2


Everything seems to be out of stock so I may have left this too late unless new stocks come in quickly Smile

Post #840905 1st Jul 2020 9:01am
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wyvern



Member Since: 14 Dec 2009
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 1601

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Firenze Red

to help you choose what and why to buy .... sadly they are American but gives you a good idea.





- Scottish video review !

There are other reviews on y tube

enjoy!!

Thumbs Up Poppy - TDCI (Puma) 110XS 2.2 - Camper conversion - see the build here - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530.html
Elgar -TDCI(Puma) 110XS Dormobile - now sold
Devon & Cornwall 4x4 Response - DC126

Post #842687 9th Jul 2020 7:38am
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Keith5



Member Since: 27 May 2016
Location: Scotland
Posts: 255

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Santorini Black

One other benefit of having rigid boats on the roof is that they can double up as improvised roof boxes. Having done similar trips to what you are describing we load the boats with the buoyancy aids, spraydecks, wets suits, spare split paddles etc This leaves us space in the Defender for children and the rest of our holiday gear, and keep the wet/damp stuff in the boats out of the way.

Honestly I can't imagine managing to pack two inflatables and all the associated gear inside the 110 along with the amount of stuff that seems to go on holiday with the kids.

You could also hire a couple of canoes/kayaks on your way through the central belt (Edinburgh/Glasgow). Keith

Post #842707 9th Jul 2020 9:32am
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Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 988

Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park rules

I live on the edge of the National Park

There are strictly enforced wild camping rules within the park, ie you will be moved on for pitching anywhere in any of the management areas, other than at an approved campsite between March and October. The reason is that so much damage is being done to woodlands (folks chopping down trees for campfires or even just lighting up in the trunk of a living tree), sooooooooooo much litter and vast qualities of bottles being thrown away any old place, entire encampments just being abandoned on a Sunday when folks head back home that have led to livestock being injured/ killed and one thing that annoys locals probably more than anything is huge groups of people rough camping and behaving in an antisocial way (getting drunk and puking any old place, crapping and peeing on footpaths, that sort of anti social). Result was two years ago very controversially the no wild camping rules were introduced

Boating on the loch - not many rules but all “powered” craft must be registered (IIRC registration is free but self adhesive numbers are charged for) Wind/solar and man powered craft with no mechanical propulsion don’t need to register. Due to more antisocial behaviour by a few powerboat owners and just the sheer cost of manning the other previously free slipways, there is now only one public launch site on the Lochside - at Balloch. Cost is £55 for the whole season. There is a speed limit of 50 knots as well and a requirement that all people in a boat must wear floatation devices and all powered craft must display navigation lights at night ( result of an accident in the dark 8-9 years ago when 6 people were drowned when 2 power boats collided in the dark....)

With regards to easing lock down here is where you will find what is scheduled
https://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/park-...-visitors/

Park Byelaws are here https://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/park-...s/byelaws/

General website is here
https://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/

Also PLEASE remember 2 other things that are applicable all over Scotland and the Islands -
a) We have NO public rights of way in Scotland, there is NOWHERE where you can just drive off into the wilds, you must have written authority from the landowner. BUT there are two very active Land Rover Only off-road clubs that run events throughout the year and who welcome visitors to the region to join in on their off-road drives. They are SLROC www.slroc.co.uk and The Scottish Green Road Club www.scotgrc.co.uk/events - both are “Land RoverS Only” clubs. Both operate mostly in the Central Belt and a bit outside, but there are clubs further north who I’m sure also operate “ we welcome visitors” policy. I know that with SGRC we now have to register and pre-pay online for the twice monthly off-road drives, that is a result of C-19.

b) I’m sure that this won’t apply to anybody on the forum but remember that in Scotland we have a much lower BAC for drink driving - basically one medium glsss of wine will put you over the limit here.......

BTW have you thought of an inflatable Stand-up Paddle Board? Epsom Green Tdi300 County Hard Top converted into a Station Wagon
Defender D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior with a few dealer options that replaced a totally faultless Mini Countryman PHEV


Last edited by Tim in Scotland on 9th Jul 2020 11:36am. Edited 5 times in total

Post #842712 9th Jul 2020 10:00am
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RLD



Member Since: 29 Jun 2007
Location: Lancs
Posts: 857

United Kingdom 

This is my one it is a Gumotex Baraca

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 RLD fabricator of Hidden Winch Mount for D3/4 roof racks jerry can holders CB aerial mounts and much more and agent for Helsport Tents and gear

Post #842720 9th Jul 2020 10:36am
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ChrisCSL



Member Since: 10 Aug 2019
Location: Berks
Posts: 59

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

Hi,

I've got a cheap inflatable 2 seat kayak that's mostly used on the Thames. I would say they would be good for loch use just being careful of how windy the day is. Life vests always a must. For a family of 4 you're right in needing two as they have weight limits which are fine for adult and child. As long as you're sensible and respectful of the weather.

Chris

Post #842763 9th Jul 2020 3:09pm
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Stacey007



Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3225

United Kingdom 

Thanks all.


I do think I have left this too late.... almost no choice on line

Thanks Tim, I did consider a Paddle board but my theory was the Kayak would keep us dryer... thinking a loch will be freezing. but mainly my balance is poor !! I have windsurfed years ago (in France) but I prefer to be in a boat type device.


As for space, we normally fit everything in when camping.... then we always have the sankey I took last year to Devon / Cornwall this year we are staying in accommodation so don't need quite so much stuff Smile oooh and I now have a roof box


Thumbs Up

Post #842767 9th Jul 2020 3:28pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 4474

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue

I can confirm diving into Loch Lomond from the back of a friends boat last year (after being towed on a donut) the water was cold..... 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock

Post #842775 9th Jul 2020 4:14pm
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